Watson:- "What? Do you exclude then from the body of Christ all them which did not communicate, being present?" Fecknam:-"But Cyprian saith, Bread which no multitude doth consume:' which cannot be understood but only of the body of Christ."

Ridley:

Also Cyprian in this place did speak of the true body of Christ, and not of material bread."

Fecknam:-"Nay, rather he did there entreat of the sacrament in that tractation De Coena Domini,' writing upon the supper of the Lord."

Ridley:"Truth it is, and I grant he entreateth there of the sacrament: but also he doth admix something therewithal of the spiritual manducation."

Smith:-"When the Lord saith, This is my body,' he useth no tropical speech:

Ergo, You are deceived."

Ridley:-"I deny your antecedent."

Smith:-"I bring here Augustine expounding these words, He was carried in his own hands: How may this be understood to be done in man? For no man is carried in his own hands, but in the hands of other. How this may be understood of David after the letter, we do not find; of Christ we find it. For Christ was borne in his own hands, when he saith, This is my body:' for he carried that same body in his own hands, &c. Augustine here did not see how this place, after the letter, could be understood of David; because no man can carry himself in his own hands. "Therefore,' saith he, this place is to be understood of Christ after the letter.' For Christ carried himself in his own hands in his supper, when he gave the sacrament to his disciples, saying, This is my body.""

6

answered.

Ridley:-"I deny your argument, and I explicate the Augustine same. Augustine could not find, after his own understanding,

["Nulla panem hunc multitudo consumit." Cyprian. de Cœna Dom. Op. Ed. Ben. Par. 1726. col. cxv. ED.]

[3"Hoc vero, fratres, quomodo possit fieri in homine, quis intelligat? Manibus enim suis nemo portatur, sed alienis. Quomodo intelligatur de David secundum literam, non invenimus; de Christo autem invenimus. Ferebatur enim Christus in manibus suis cum diceret, Hoc est corpus meum. Ferebat enim illud corpus in manibus suis," etc. S. Aug. in Psal. xxxiii. En. 1. Op. Ed. Ben. Par. 1685. tom. iv. col. 214. ED.]

The place of
Augustine,

was carried

hands "ad

i.e. literally.

how this could be understood of David after the letter. Augustine goeth here from others in this exposition, but I go not from him. But let this exposition of Augustine be granted to you; although I know this place of Scripture be otherwise read of other men, after the verity of the Hebrew text, and it is also otherwise to be expounded. Yet, to grant to you this exposition of Augustine, I say yet notwithstanding, it maketh nothing against my assertion: for Christ did bear himself in his own hands, when he gave the sacrament of his body to be eaten of his disciples."

Smith:-"Ergo, It is true of Christ after the letter, that he was borne in his own hands."

Ridley:-"He was borne literally, and after that letter which was spoken of David: but not after the letter of these words, Hoc est corpus meum.'

"I grant that St Augustine saith, that it is not found literhow Christ ally of David, that he carried himself in his own hands, and in his own that it is found of Christ. But this word 'ad literam,' ' literally,' literam," you do not well refer to that which was borne, but rather it ought to be referred to him that did bear it. St Augustine's meaning is this; that it is not read anywhere in the Bible, that this carnal David, the Son of Jesse, did bear himself in his hands; but of that spiritual David, that overthrew Goliath the devil (that is, of Christ our Saviour, the son of the Virgin), it may well be found literally, that he bare himself in his own hands after a certain manner, namely, in carrying the sacrament of himself. And note, that St Augustine hath these words, 'quodam modo," after a certain manner;' which manifestly declare, how the doctor's meaning is to be taken.” "When then was he borne in his own hands, and after what letter?"

A figure he may bear,

but not a sacrament.

Smith:-
:-

Ridley-"He was borne in the supper sacramentally, when he said, 'This is my body.""

Smith:-"Every man may bear in his own hands a figure of his body. But Augustine denieth that David could carry himself in his hands:

Ergo, He speaketh of no figure of his body."

Ridley:-"If Augustine could have found in all the Scripture, that David had carried the sacrament of his body, then he would never have used that exposition of Christ.”

Smith:

66

"But he did bare himself in his own hands:

Ergo, He did not bear a figure only."

Ridley:-"He did bear himself, but in a sacrament: and Augustine afterward addeth, 'quodam modo,' that is, ‘sacramentally.""

modo.

Smith:-"You understand not what Augustine meant Quodam when he said, 'quodam modo; for he meant, that he did bear his very true body in that supper, not in figure and form of a body, but in form and figure of bread :

Ergo, You are holden fast, neither are you able to escape out of this labyrinth."

Dr Weston repeated this place again in English: which done, then Dr Tresham began thus to speak, moved (as it seemed to master Ridley) with great zeal; and desired that he might be in the stead of John Baptist, in converting the hearts of the fathers, and in reducing the said Bishop Ridley again to the mother church. Now at the first, not knowing the person, he thought he had been some good old man, which had the zeal of God, although not according to knowledge, and began to answer him with mansuetude and reverence: but afterward he smelled a fox under a sheep's clothing.

prayeth for

Ridley.

Tresham :-"God Almighty grant that it may be fulfilled Tresham in me, that was spoken by the prophet Malachi of John converting Baptist, Which may turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, that you at length may be converted.' The wise man saith, Son, honour thy father, and reverence thy mother:' but you dishonour your Father in heaven, and pollute your mother the holy church here on earth, while ye set nought by her."

6

Ridley:"These bye words do pollute your school." Tresham: :- "If there were an Arian which had that subtle wit that you have, he might soon shift off the authority of the Scriptures and fathers."

Weston:-"Either dispute, or else hold your peace, I pray

you."

of the Late

Tresham:-"I bring a place here out of the council of The decree Lateran, the which council representing the universal church, ran council

transub

alleged for wherein were congregated three hundred bishops and seventy stantiation. metropolitans, besides a great multitude of others, decreed that bread and wine, by the power of God's word, was transubstantiate into the body and blood of the Lord. Therefore whosoever saith contrary, cannot be a child of the church, but a heretic."

Ibid.

Carping.

Council of
Lateran.

Ridley:-"Good sir, I have heard what you have cited out of the council of Lateran, and remember that there was a great multitude of bishops and metropolitans, as you said: but yet you have not numbered how many abbots, priors, and friars were in that council, who were to the number of eight hundred."

One of the Scribes:-"What! will you deny then the authority of that council, for the multitude of those priors?”

Ridley:-"No, sir, not so much for that cause, as for that, especially, because the doctrine of that council agreed not with the word of God, as it may well appear by the acts of that council, which was holden under Innocent the Third, a man (if we believe the histories) most pernicious to the church and commonwealth of Christ."

Tresham:-"What! do you not receive the council of Lateran?" Whereupon he, with certain others, cried, “Scribite, scribite," Write, write.

Ridley:-"No, sir, I receive not that council; scribite, et rescribite,' write, and write again."

Tresham :-" Evil men do eat the natural body of Christ : ergo, the true and natural body of Christ is on the altar.”

Ridley:-"Evil men do eat the very true and natural body of Christ sacramentally, and no further; as St Augustine saith. But good men do eat the very true body, both sacramentally, and spiritually by grace.”

Tresham :-"I prove the contrary by St Augustine: Sicut enim Judas, cui buccellulam Dominus tradidit, non malum accipiendo, sed male accipiendo, peccavit,' &c.' 'Like as Judas, to whom the Lord gave the morsel, did offend, not in taking a thing that was evil, but in receiving it after an evil manner,' &c. And a little after, Because some

[Aug. lib. v. cont. Donatistas. cap. 8.

tom. ix. col. 146. ED.]

Op. Ed. Ben. Par. 1685.

[Aut quia non ad salutem accipit, nihil acceperit. Ibid. En.]

do not eat unto salvation, it followeth not therefore, that it is not his body.""

Ridley:"It is the body to them, that is, the sacrament of the body: and Judas took the sacrament of the Lord to his condemnation. Augustine hath distinguished these things well in another place, where he saith, 'The bread of the Lord, [and] the bread the Lord. Evil men eat the bread of the Lord, but not the bread the Lord: but good men eat both the bread of the Lord, and bread the Lord."" Weston"Paul saith, the body,' and you say, the sa- This Wescrament of the body."

Ridley:-"Paul meaneth so indeed."

Watson:"You understand it evil concerning the sign: for the fathers say, that evil men do eat him which descended from heaven."

ton spake in English.

tors, &c.

Ridley:"They eat him indeed, but sacramentally. The The old docfathers use many times the sacrament for the matter of the sacrament, and all that same place maketh against you:" and so here he cited the place.

alleged.

Weston:-"I bring Theophylact, which saith, that Judas Theophylact did taste the body of the Lord'. The Lord did shew the cruelty of Judas, who, when he was rebuked, did not understand, and tasted the Lord's flesh,' &c."

Ridley: "This phrase to divines is well known, and Answer. used of the doctors: He tasted the flesh of the Lord, 'insensibiliter,' insensibly; that is, the sacrament of the Lord's flesh."

-

alleged.

Weston Chrysostom saith, that the same punishment Chrysostom remaineth to them which receive the body of the Lord unworthily, as to them which crucified him."

Ridley:"That is, because they defile the Lord's body: Chrysostom for evil men do eat the body of Christ sacramentally, but

[ "Panem Domini, et panem Dominum. Mali manducant panem Domini, non panem Dominum: boni autem manducant et panem Domini, et panem Dominum." S. Aug. on Johan. Evan. Tract. lix. Op. Ed. Ben. Par. 1685. tom. iii. pars 2. col. 663. ED.]

[' Διὰ τοῦτο προσέθηκε τὸ ἐσθιόντων, ἵνα παραστήσῃ τὴν ἀπαντ θρωπίαν τοῦ Ἰούδα, ὅτι ἐν τραπέζῃ καὶ τῶν αὐτῶν βρωμάτων κοινωνίᾳ, ὅτε, εἰ καὶ θηρίον ἦν, πραότερος ἂν ἐγεγόνει, τότε οὐδὲ ἐλεγχόμενος συνῆκεν, ἀλλὰ καὶ τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ γενόμενος οὐ μεταμελεῖται. Theoph. in Math. Evan. cap. xxvi. Ed. Morelli, Paris. 1631. p. 161. ED.]

expounded.