Mr. SCOVELL. It does not make any difference how much it is the surplus waters of the Erie canal.

Mr. GARNER. Then you believe that the power should be permitted to come into this county, as much as possible from Canada, and that the control and regulation of that power should be left to New York? Mr. SCOVELL. I do.

Mr. GARNER. With those provisions in a bill, it would nearly perfect the treaty?

Mr. SCOVELL. Nearly.

Mr. GARNER. Now, what have you to say with reference to the desire of the State of Michigan to receive some of this power?

Mr. SCOVELL. They would not take any of the United States power. They are simply asking for some of the Canadian power.

Mr. GARNER. They ask for the importation of it. Do you mean we should put the entire importation of power into the hands of the commission of New York?

Mr. SCOVELL. I do not. Simply give it to the control of the State into which it passes. It would not make any difference if it was in Minnesota, or Michigan, or down at Ogdensburg where they take the power from the St. Lawrence.

Mr. GARNER. Whatever State it may be imported into, the laws of that State should control the power after it reaches the State? Mr. SCOVELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. GARNER. Well, I don't know but what I agree with you.

Mr. SCOVELL. The question that comes to my mind as the result of the thought I have given to it, if during the year since we originally planned the changes in the Root bill which are embodied in the Simmons bill before you, seem to have resulted in my reaching the conclusion that it is undesirable that any more strings be tied around the use of the 4,400 cubic feet such as would be the result of requiring the consent of the American members of the joint high commission; and I am ready to say that whereas then we had no conservation commission in the State of New York, and whereas now we have newly constituted authorities in the form of a conservation commission, that it would be sufficient to provide that the permits should be issued by the Secretary of War on the recommendation or with the consent. of the conservation commission of the State of New York, and on such terms and subject to such regulations as they should impose, the same to be true as to other States along the boundary where importation may occur.

Mr. GARNER. But your broad proposition is this: That as far as the Federal Government could go is to see that not more than 20,000 cubic feet per second is taken out on this side, and that should be left to the Secretary of War; that that far we should go and no farther, leaving the rest of the details and regulations to the States that take this power?

Mr. SCOVELL. Exactly, whether imported or generated in this country.

Mr. HARRISON. Suppose we should pass such a law as this, giving States power to regulate rates, and they should pass laws ordering a certain rate to be charged and the companies should enjoin the enforcement of that right on the theory that we had authority here, that it was a Federal proposition, do you think that would avail them anything?

Mr. SCOVELL. I do not.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you concluded?
Mr. SCOVELL. I have.

STATEMENT OF MR. ALBERT F. EELLS.

Mr. CHAIRMAN. Will you give the reporter your name and whom you represent?

Mr. EELLS. My name is Albert F. Eells; I represent no one but myself.

Gentlemen, I have but a crude outline of my plan, as when I received notice of this meeting I was gathering facts bearing on this subject and am unprepared in many details. What I propose to do is this: To build a power house below the cliffs at Niagara Falls, which will be constructed with a granite front and over the roof of which will pass the waters of Niagara River. Then the water will fall over the front of the structure and be equally distributed over the entire front, hiding it entirely from view. The crest or front of this building can be formed to produce any effect on the falling water desired. The cliff now there could be copied if desired. The crest could also be raised to any desired height. This falling water can be utilized at the base of the power house to operate wheels made especially for that purpose, which can be connected with generators for generating electricity. These wheels are also invisible from the outside, as is also the entire structure. A gallery may also be made in such a manner that visitors can pass safely under the entire waterfall.

To accomplish this object it will be necessary to divert the water from the part of the Falls where the workmen are operating, and for this purpose I shall require an international permit; also a permit to remove the loose stone now laying at the bottom of the Falls, and possibly a permit to lower the river below the Falls by removing some obstructions down the gorge, and, as the scenic beauty of the Falls will be augmented and the Falls preserved from disintegration, after finishing this work, I think I should be paid a specified price for doing this work. This is the situation at present at the Horseshoe Falls: The water is eating up into the cliff at the rate of between 5 and 6 feet a year. In a few years we shall see nothing of the Canadian Falls excepting a gorge with some fog at the mouth of it. By this plan the scenic beauty of the Falls will be augmented, the water level in the river will be slightly raised, the water passing over the Falls will be utilized for a power, and the people will be receiving a benefit of a great electrical power; also employment in the construction and operating.

Gentlemen, this is a blue print which I got down at the engineers' office and which I suppose is the largest of the Niagara Falls and the Horseshoe. Being a little dim to look at from a distance I had a tracing made which shows it so that the whole committee can see. This exhibiting drawing] represents the Horseshoe. This is the 1875 line. The upper edge of the black line is where the Horseshoe is at the present time. It is gradually eating up into the stone at the rate of between 5 and 6 feet a year, and that in a short time is going to make a gorge up in here and the only thing we shall see of Niagara Falls will be a gorge and a little steam at the mouth of it.

I have means of preventing this. You see this red line [indicating]. I propose to put a granite wall in there for the water to flow over, which can be made perfectly level and distribute the water all over the surface of the Falls. Behind this wall I would put a power house. For the foundation of that power house stone would be dumped in until it got up to a level with the water or higher. On that would be put pillars, on which would be put a roof, and over that roof would flow the water. This wall can be made to take any form necessary, and we could have any effect of waterfall desired. Now this water after passing over the falls would entirely cover this line [indicating], which would be the front of the fall. At the lower part of this power house I have wheels which would be operated by the falling water to generate electricity, and instead of having a famine of electricity we would have a very large amount of it to use. Now, how I am interested in the matter is this: I have a patent for using a deflecting front for a waterfall; that is, for putting a power house behind a wall. To do this it will be necessary for me to divert the water from the Horseshoe and from other parts of the falls, and to do that it will be necessary to get an international permit for the work. So I come before you people to find out what your feeling would be in this matter. Of course, if you are opposed to it that ends the matter.

The CHAIRMAN. Isn't that a different proposition from the one we are considering?

Mr. EELLS. I do not know.

The CHAIRMAN. It has no relation to it, Mr. Eells, has it?

Mr. EELLS. It has nothing to do with that treaty; no, sir.

Mr. COOPER. How fast did you say the water was eating back? Mr. EELLS. Between 5 and 6 feet a year, according to measurements. You can see it here on the blue prints.

Mr. FOSTER. Do you know how much it would cost?

Mr. EELLS. I have not got the details yet. I want to say if this should be favorably received by the committee it is going to be an expensive matter. Of course, I wish to get the ideas that would be brought out before this committee and I would like to get their idea as to whether they will look upon this favorably or unfavorably. It is going to be an expensive matter to get these details of the cost and, of course, I do not wish to spend the money myself unless this would be received favorably. Of course, if the gentlemen here feel unfavorable we will drop this matter right where it is.

Mr. FOSTER. It seems to me we would have to get a new treaty. Mr. EELLS. I do not see what it has to do with the treaty. This is unseen altogether. This is all behind the Falls. None of my works are in view.

Mr. FOSTER. I mean with regard to building that wall.

Mr. EELLS. I do not ask you to spend the money. I will supply the money; I or my associates.

Mr. HARRISON. How will you be reimbursed for your expenditures?

Mr. EELLS. By the electric power. It will be something like 2,000,000 horsepower. We propose to use it all; that is, when it is wanted. It would not affect the water below the Falls.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you made application to the commission in Canada?

Mr. EELLS. I have been over to Canada and they seem very enthusiastic. You see, they charge so much per horsepower for the water which is used, and they see an opportunity of getting more revenue. The CHAIRMAN. They have most of the Falls. Don't you think it would be a good idea to get their permission first?

Mr. FOSTER. I think you will find us just as enthusiastic as Canada, but I think, perhaps, as the chairman has suggested, that Canada should take the lead. Canada turned us down on reciprocity you know.

The CHAIRMAN. We will hear Mr. Watrous, the secretary of the American Civic Association.

STATEMENT OF RICHARD B. WATROUS, SECRETARY, AMERICAN CIVIC ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, D. C.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Watrous, will you give the reporter you name and whom you represent?

Mr. WATROUS. Richard B. Watrous, representing the American Civic Association, of which I am secretary.

Mr. Chairman, in taking some time at this late hour of the day, I want to say that we had hoped very much that the president of the association might be here this week, for he has been before similar hearings and discussed this subject and is known as an authority upon the subjects we represent, particularly on all matters concerning Niagara Falls-Mr. J. Horace McFarland. At this time I desire to say that he will probably be here next Tuesday, and we shall need, and I presume we can have, additional time to present the case as

we see it.

The CHAIRMAN. We shall be glad to hear Mr. McFarland.

Mr. WATROUS. In my position, gentlemen, I am reminded somewhat of a certain meeting where a revival had been in progress for some time and the minister had asked all those who wanted to go to heaven to stand. The entire congregation arose. He had just propounded the question whether there was anyone who wanted to go to the other place when a wayfarer walked in, followed an uneven course down to the front where he stood unsteadily. The minister said, "Are you the only one that wants to go to hell?" He replied, "Well, parson, you seem to be all alone, so I am willing to go with you." I have had a feeling in the presence of this august audience composed of president, attorneys, and engineer experts of the power companies, that I was almost alone. But I am not alone, Mr. Chairman, because I have back of me the hundreds of thousands and millions of people of this country who believe that scenic glories. such as Niagara Falls are things that have more than a commercial

asset.

In this connection, may I be permitted to say just a little about the American Civic Association, which has been somewhat maligned in one or two cities represented here to-day, because it has spoken plainly concerning the falls. It is composed of thousands of representative men and women of this country, including some hundreds of affiliated societies which represent hundreds of thousands of individuals. There is numbered among the members of this association the President of the United States, who joined voluntarily when he was Secretary of War. There are other members in the Cabinet.

There are influential men and women of all the States. They have been heard from on several former occasions when this matter was to be fought out. You, as Congressmen, and the gentlemen in the Senate, know that you have heard from them in letters and in telegrams, and they have come from every section of the country. The association represents the consolidation of State and interstate societies organized for specific purposes which are mentioned in the circular which I hold in my hand. I am going to read from that the objects of the association, so that you may know what they are: The cultivation of higher ideals of civic life and beauty in America, and the promotion of city, town, and neighborhood improvement, the cultivation and development of landscape, and the advancement of outdoor art.

I am going to ask the chairman for permission to hand that to the reporter to be included in the report of this hearing.

The circular referred to is appended, marked "A."

I am very glad to be an officer of that association. I also want to state that I am very glad to have had some years of contact with a distinctly business organization, so that I appreciate the value of business organizations I mean aggregations of capital-and the important service they render to the country. I have never been considered as one who is out continually with a hammer against such organizations. I desire to say-and I know I speak the sentiment of the president of the organization-that it is not because of illfeeling toward the power companies that we have contended for the preservation of the falls, but for the larger devotion to the people of this country and of the world who appreciate the beauty of a scenic wonder such as Niagara Falls. I have felt this afternoon that we have gotten away from the thought of scenic beauty. We can not forget that all these hearings and the hearings before the Committee on Rivers and Harbors and a large part of the hearings which resulted in the treaty are due exclusively to the idea that Niagara is a scenic wonder and ought to be preserved as such. Different phases of the question have been presented at length by attorneys and by engineers, but I believe I am the first one so far to speak of the value of the Falls as an asset to all the people from the standpoint of its scenic glory.

I do not want to try to discuss or enter into an argument as to the statement made yesterday concerning the vested rights of the power companies. I am reminded, however, that possibly there is a prior right to the falls, prior to those acquired by the companies there, as possibly illustrated by the photographs we have submitted of pictures made more than 100 years ago a right of the people to the beauty of the Falls, a right which existed and was used long before we thought of using the water as a source of power.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any official records of the erosion of the Falls?

Mr. WATROUS. I have not.

The CHAIRMAN. Could you get that?

Mr. SPENCER. I can get a statement of that and give it to you when I come to speak.

The CHAIRMAN. We would like to have that go in the record.

Mr. WATROUS. Mr. Spencer, who has just spoken, is a recognized authority on the Falls. My bible, however, is the reports, or reports combined into one, of the War Department, particularly of the Corps of Enginers.