York can give some explanations on the subject, and furnish reasons which at present I do not understand.

Mr. COCHRAN. I will answer the gentleman from Warren in this way: Ithink a railroad company cannot carry for a short distance for the same rate per ton per mile as they can for a long distance. As far as these shorter distances are concerned, I want to allow them to make a reasonable discrimination, in order that they may be able to compensate themselves for the cost of carrying the shorter distance, and for the expense of handling, the demurrage of cars, &c., which are as great for a transportation of freight for five miles as they are for a transportation of one hundred.

Mr. STRUTHERS. Mr. Chairman: It appears to me that the chairman of the Railroad Committee has chosen the wrong word to express his idea. What I understand by discrimination is favoring one trader as against another trader, one shipper as against another shipper. If you carry for one shipper for a given price for five miles, you must carry for another shipper five miles for the same price. Then there is no discrimination. If you charge a little more proportionately for five miles than you do for ten miles, that is no discrimination; you charge all alike. In every instance you charge the greater or the lesser price to all shippers. That is not discrimination. It is adding to the price on account of the shortness of the distance. I think the language should be modified. The idea is one that meets my approval, but I desire to see it expressed in words that will more clearly present it. I am satisfied that the idea is right; but it is not discrimination to prescribe one rate for all shippers to and from the same points, and I hope the chairman of the Committee on Railroads and Canals will devise a better means of expressing the idea. Since the beginning of our legislation in regard to the railroad system, I do not think we have ever passed any law that recognized the fact that there could be discrimination between shippers, and I do not think it is now desirable to introduce it into our Constitution.

Mr. DODD. While I am in favor of the general principles of the amendment of the gentleman from York, (Mr. Cochran,) I desire to say that, like the snake, it carries its sting in its tail. The last clause, allowing discriminations within fifty miles, spoils the whole thing.

Mr. COCHRAN. I want only to say, in reply to the gentleman from Warren, (Mr. Struthers,) that if I am not mistaken the word "discrimination" applies as well to distances as it does to persons. The idea was that the discrimination applied to distances. I may be wrong in that, but that was my idea, and those with whom I consulted always understood it to be so. I always supposed that discrimination could apply to distances as well as to individuals.

Mr. STRUTHERS. Then say that it shall apply to distances, in order that the section shall never be misunderstood.

Mr. COCHRAN. Mr. Chairman: Will the Clerk read the last clause? The CLERK read as follows:

"And the charges for freight and fares for passengers shall, for equal distances in the same direction, be the same; and a higher charge shall never be made for a shorter than is made for a longer distance; and no special rates or drawbacks shall either directly or indirectly be allowed; but commutation tickets to passengers may be issued as heretofore, and reasonable discrimination as to charges may be made for any distance not exceeding fifty miles.

Mr. COCHRAN. I will modify the section, by inserting after the word "reasonable," instead of the word "discrimination," the words, "extra charge within the limits of the charter."

The CHAIRMAN. The modification will be made as suggested.

Mr. NEWLIN. Mr. Chairman: It seems to me, from the shape that this amendment has taken, and from the number of suggestions that are made from time to time in different parts of the House, that it is perfectly evident the Convention does not understand what it is acting upon, and we had better adjourn. I move, therefore, that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

On the question of agreeing to the mo tion of Mr. Newlin, a division was called for, which resulted thirty-six in the affirmative and fifty-six in the negative. So the motion was not agreed to.

Mr. BUCKALEW. Mr. Chairman: Idesire to make a single remark in reference to this subject. We have now about arrived at a point of agreement upon this section, upon which we have expended so much time and so much debate. There will be ample opportunity in the two subsequent readings that are before us to cor

THURSDAY, April 24, 1873, The Convention met at ten o'clock A. M., Hon. W. M. Meredith, President, in the chair.

Prayer by Rev. J. W. Curry. The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved.

PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS.

Mr. VAN REED presented a petition of the members of the bar of Berks county, praying for the abolition of the grand jury system, which was read and ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. CAMPBELL presented a menorial of upwards of one hundred and fifty merchants and citizens of Philadelphia, praying for the adoption of certain restrictions on railroads, proposed in the report of the Committee on Railroads and Canals, which was ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. J. N. PURVIANCE presented two petitions of a similar tenor, which were ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. COCHRAN presented four petitions of a similar tenor, signed by citizens of Philadelphia, which were ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. RUSSELL presented a petition upon the same subject, which was ordered to lie on the table.

THE REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY.

Mr. ALRICKS asked and obtained leave of absence for Mr. M'Allister, of Centre, for a few days, on account of sickness.

PERIODICAL GEOLOGICAL SURVEY.

Mr. PATTON. I offer the following resolution:

Resolved, That the Committee on Agriculture, Mining, Manufactures and Commerce be requested to report the following article, as supplementary to their report:

"ARTICLE —. The Legislature shall, before the fourth day of July, 1876, and in each period of twenty years thereafter, authorize a geological and mineralogical survey of the State, and the publication of the report of the same.

The resolution was referred to the Committee on Agriculture, Mining, Manufactures and Commerce.

RAILROADS AND CANALS.

Mr. DARLINGTON. I move that the Convention resolve itself into committee of the whole, upon the report of the Committee on Railroads and Canals.

The motion was agreed to, and the Convention resolved itself into committee of the whole, Mr. Broomall in the chair.

The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the ninth section of the article reported by the Committee on Railroads and Canals.

Resolved, That the report of the Committee on the Judiciary be made the special order for the fourth Monday of May. Mr. TEMPLE. I move to lay the motion on the table.

The PRESIDENT. No motion being made to proceed to the second reading and consideration of this resolution, it is laid upon the table.

LEAVE OF ABSENCE.

Mr. KAINE. I ask leave of absence for Mr. Hanna, of Philadelphia, for this after

noon.

Leave was granted.

"all," in the sixth line; in the seventh line strike out the words, "the companies owning or controlling or managing such;” in the eighth line, to add after the word "canals," the word "companies," and in the ninth line to strike out the words “ex

cept as above excepted," so that the section will read, if amended as 1 propose :

"All regulations adopted by railroad or canal companies, having the effect of hindering or discriminating against individuals, partnerships or corporations in the transportation of property on such railroads and canals, shall be void; and no railroad corporation, nor any lessee or manager of the works thereof, shall make any prefer

ence in their own favor or between individuals, partnerships and companies shipping and transporting thereon, in furnishing cars or motive power, but shall supply the same in equal ratable proportions to each shipper or transporter in the order in which cars and motive power shall be called for and needed by them as shippers or transporters on said railroad."

The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Venango (Mr. Dodd.)

Mr. S. A. PURVIANCE. I move to amend the amendment, by inserting in the fifteenth line, after the word "proportions," the words "to the extent of whatever may be on hand;" that is, the motive power and cars.

The CHAIRMAN. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Allegheny to the amendment of the gentleman from Venango.

Mr. T. H. B. PATTERSON. Mr. Chair man: I wish to explain to the members of the Convention as briefly as possible, in order to save their time, the object aimed at by the Railroad Committee in this section.

Before proceeding to discuss the section precisely, I wish to remark, by way of thanks to the gentleman from Philadelphia, (Mr. Gowen,) that I am much obliged to him for the extreme age and wisdom which he attributes to me, and I hope he will listen to such words of wisdom as may fall from my lips, as a child should listen to a father.

In reply to the arguments that have been made generally on this subject, and not specifically applying to the section that is passed, or to this section, with regard to the question of the vested rights of such corporations as may now be in existence and exercising the powers of transportation companies or of railroad companies, I will briefly say that, for my self, I take it that the people of Pennsylvania of to-day are merely trustees of the public power and eminent domain, and public property rights of the State, not for themselves alone, but for posterity, and that any delegation of legislative power by the people of this day, or any other day, must be subject to this trust, and therefore, that any rights which any public corporations may have to-day in Pennsylvania, are subject to the question as to whether they are the mere custodians of public property and public power as trustees for the people of Pennsylvania of to-day and for their posterity. The

question of vested rights, which has been so learnedly discussed by both the gentlemen from Philadelphia and other delegates on the floor of this House, is a question which involves entirely a question of the distinctions between public property and public rights, and private property and private rights, and is a question which goes into the whole domain of how far corporations, in their public capacity, are trustees for the people and for their posterity, and therefore, I take it, a question for judicial ascertainment, and not a question to be discussed at length by delegates on the floor of this House.

In deciding the question involved in this section, and in other sections that have come up, or may come up hereafter, I take it that we, as the representatives of the sovereign people, in Convention assembled, and in our own rights, acting in the nature of a peaceful revolution, as far as the action of the Legislature or of their creatures may have been injurious to the welfare of the people and of the State, and prejudicial to the trust for posterity, should adopt those measures which we think best for ourselves, for the people of Pennsylvania, and for posterity, without regard to the questions of private vested rights, and leaving those questions to be entirely determined by judicial decision. And as far as the rights of corporations, or of individuals, are vested, we have no power to disturb them. So far as they are not vested, we have a right to call them to account for their trust, and have a right to adopt useful regulations. So that, I take it, in the discussion of the rights of common carriers and transportation companies, under this section and all the sections of this report, the question of vested rights is not a proper question for the display of an affectation of legal lore on the floor of this House, and upon which to occupy the attention' of the Convention. I hope that in the future, in the comments upon the report of the committee, and the discussion of amendments, gentlemen will confine themselves to the expediency, usefulnss and proper character of the regulations proposed, and leave the question of private rights, and the distinctions relating thereto, for the judicial decision of the courts of our land.

One word, sir, es to the misconduct charged upon the Committee on Railroads and Canals, of which I am a member, by a colleague of mine from Allegheny county (Mr. J. W. F. White.) I wish to say here, in vindication of the report of the

committee, that we waited up to the last hour for the report of the Committee on Private and other Corporations; that we met in consultation with them, and any subject which they claimed belonged to the province of their committee, or which they notified us they desired to act upon, we handed over to that committee. If the gentleman from Allegheny, or any other member of that committee, unfortunately carried in his pocket sections or propositions upon which that committee proposed to act in the course of time, and gave no notice, and made no demand on the Railroad Committee in regard to them, it is so much the worse for that member of that committee, and that committee, because, I take it, that committee having been fully organized, ought to have discharged its duties, and ought to have made a report to this House before this time. If it did not do so, I do not think it is matter of criticism and reflection on another committee of this body that it did discharge its duty and did not stop the machinery of this Convention, in order to wait on the slow movements of another committee.

I make these remarks before proceeding to the consideration of this section, because I do not wish to speak again on this subject.

With regard to the general remarks and objections, that all the wrongs suffered by individuals at the hands of common carriers, corporations, can be remedied in the courts, under the statute, by equity and by common law proceeding, I will simply say here, that that is no remedy whatever for the wrongs of the shippers of this State; and there is not an honest delegate on the floor of this Convention who knows anything of the wrongs of the business men of the State, with regard to the shipment of property, who does not know that any business man who attempts to go into the courts of this State for remedies against the common carrier corporations will find his business gone or ruined before he secures his remedy for the particular wrong that he complained of. This is a sufficient answer to that point. There can be no protection to the people of Pennsylvania, with regard to the rights of shipment of property, except by the insertion of some stringent provision in the Constitution that will make such an infringment a forfeiture, thus placing this matter under the protection of the fundamental law of the land, giving the citizen the protection of the public, and not

compelling him to take individual action in the courts.

The gentleman from Allegheny, and the other gentlemen who have spoken on the power of this body, have objected, generally, to all of the provisions of the last secion and many other sections; and in that respect I was surprised that my colleague from Allegheny, the learned gentleman from Sewickley, opposed here yesterday, openly and boldly, all the provisions of the section then under discussion, and all the amendments, and all the proposed remedies from that section down to the close of this report, which would include the section now under discussion, in a clear and decided manner; whereas, it is not many days since that gentleman himself proposed to this body such provisions as will be found on the one hundred and ninth page of suggestions handed in to this body, viz:

"SECTION 9. All railroads and public highways in this State shall be equally free to all citizens of the State. No discrimination or special privileges shall be allowed to any person or class of persons that may not, under like circumstances, be enjoyed by all. And no discriminations in favor of through freight or through passengers shall be made to the injury of citizens of this State."

Which embodies the principles of the section under discussion yesterday in so many words; and yet our learned colleague from Allegheny then disclaimed all such principles, and suddenly and completely changed his opinion on the corporation question.

Will my col

Mr. J. W. F. WHITE. league give me the page of the Journal? Mr. T. H. B. PATTERSON. I gave the page-page 109, of Suggestions and Amendments.

Now, Mr. Chairman, the question immediately involved by this section is a similar question to the one we have been discussing for days. It is simply some mode of providing a remedy against discriminations in carrying by the common carriers, so deemed, of this State. There are two methods, and I would ask the attention of delegates for a few moments, as I have not occupied one-half hour of the whole time of this House since it assembled.

There are great evils existing in this State, owing to the fact that inside lines and transportation companies, composed of the officers and managers of the various railroad companies of the State, have been