Mr. MITCHELL. Well, the person who wrote the words, I think, was Miss Mary Ross. Senator DONNELL. Miss Mary Ross. You mean she wasn't the stenographer, but that she was the composer? Mr. MITCHELL. That is right. Senator DONNELL. And is she still with the Department? Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir; she is no longer a regular employee. Mr. MITCHELL. She has retired to private life and is doing freelance writing, I believe. Senator DONNELL. Have you read any other reports of the American Medical Association except this minority report No. 1 that is referred to here in this footnote? Mr. MITCHELL. I have read at one time or another the literature of the association. Senator DONNELL. Have you read any literature in regard to the experience in Great Britain with compulsory insurance? Mr. MITCHELL. I have read some. I have read the Beveridge Report. Senator DONNELL. You have read the Beveridge Report? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Senator DONNELL. Have you read anything on the Scandinavian countries' experience in that field? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Senator DONNELL. How long ago was that? Mr. MITCHELL. A year or so. Senator DONNELL. You don't make the contention that you are an expert in compulsory health insurance? Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir. Senator DONNELL. You are Acting Commissioner for Social Security and have never specialized in a study of health insurance? Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir; I have not. Senator DONNELL. Where were you born? Mr. MITCHELL. I was born in Newark, N. J., but I left there in a very short time. Senator DONNELL. Where did you go to school? Mr. MITCHELL. In the public and high schools of Port Washington, Long Island, and then in Georgetown University in Washington. Senator DONNELL. Did you take a degree at Georgetown? Mr. MITCHELL. I studied foreign trade at Georgetown and then entered the United States Department of Commerce. Prior to going to Commerce I was in the insurance business at the headquarters office of Great American Insurance Co. for 4 years. Senator DONNELL. The Great American Insurance Co.? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Senator DONNELL. Where is that located? Mr. MITCHELL. One Liberty Street, New York City. Senator DONNELL. Is that a health-insurance company? Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir; everything but life. Senator DONNELL. Everything but life? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Senator DONNELL. That is fire insurance, accident, casualty, automobile, et cetera ? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Senator DONNELL. You were in that 4 years? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Senator DONNELL. You did not finish Georgetown University? Mr. MITCHELL. I finished for the certificate, which is what I was a candidate for. That is a 2-year course and I finished that. Senator DONNELL. You received that certificate? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Senator DONNELL. In what year did you receive that? Senator DONNELL. Did you go into the insurance business right after that? Mr. MITCHELL. No; I was in the insurance business after I got out of high school and then for at least one summer while I was going to college. Senator DONNELL. So your insurance experience, then, was between the time that you entered high school and the time you left college! Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Senator DONNELL. And the college is Georgetown University, as you have recited? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Senator DONNELL. What did you do right after you left college? Mr. MITCHELL. I went with the United States Department of Commerce and I stayed with them for about 11, maybe 12 years, in several capacities. In their offices in New York, Louisville, Norfolk, Atlanta, Ga., and here and was abroad for a short time. Senator DONNELL. You left the Department of Commerce in what year? Mr. MITCHELL. I left the Department of Commerce, I think, in 1933 when I became the State Director for the National Recovery Administration in Georgia, and was subsequently made Regional Director for the National Recovery Administration. Senator SMITH. Would you be kind enough to send a brief statement to the clerk of this committee concerning your subsequent experience after you went to the National Recovery Administration? Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, sir. Senator DONNELL. Í ask that this be set forth in the record. (Subsequently Mr. Mitchell submitted the following memorandum:) I joined the staff of the United States Department of Commerce in 1923 here in Washington and subsequently served in the district offices of the Department in New York, Louisville, Ky; Norfolk, Va.; and Atlanta, Ga., respectively, as Commercial Agent, Assistant District Manager, and District Manager. Late in 1933 I transferred to the National Recovery Administration where I became State Director for Georgia and subsequently Regional Director for the seven Southeastern States. During this period I also served as State Director for the National Emergency Council. Early in 1936 shortly after the enactment of the Social Security Act I went with the Social Security Board as Director of the Bureau of Business Management and some 3 years later was made Assistant Executive Director in which position I served until July 1946 when the three-member Board was abolished. In 1941 I was Associate Director in charge of operations of the United States Employment Service, and returned to my position as Assistant Executive Director when the War Manpower Commission was established. In July 1946 I was made Deputy Commissioner for Social Security which is my present capacity although I am serving as Acting Commissioner in the absence of Mr. Altmeyer. All told I have had over 25 years of uninterrupted service with the Federal Government in a fairly wide range of administrative capacities. Senator PEPPER. I just want to ask one question of Miss Lenroot. You are not so much concerned in the method that the Congress adopts. I daresay what you are interested in is that we provide some adequate way by which the children and mothers of this country can get the medical care which their physical needs will require? Miss LENROOT. That is right; and that it be associated adequately with other programs for children. Senator PEPPER. But you do think that we ought to think very seriously before we sacrifice lives of mothers and children in order to save dollars? Miss LENROOT. I do, indeed, and I am afraid of any barriers such as a means test which might tend to make it more difficult for children get the care they need. to Senator PEPPER. It has been your experience that a means test tends to deter the receipt by people of the medical care needed—that is, women and children? Miss LENROOT. The reports that have come to me would indicate that. Senator MURRAY. Mr. Mitchell, the sentences which appear in your statement, and about which you were interrogated a moment ago, appear in your statement beginning at page 13. They refer to the AMA and voluntary programs, and you were there discussing voluntary insurance exclusively. Is that not true? Page 13 is headed "Voluntary Insurance.” Mr. MITCHELL. That is right. Senator MURRAY. You were not discussing compulsory insurance, were you? Mr. MITCHELL. No, sir. Senator MURRAY. Exclusively voluntary insurance? Mr. MITCHELL. That is right. Senator MURRAY. And your reference here is to the effect that the economic and social reasons why voluntary programs have not succeeded and are not likely to succeed have been expressed on at least two occasions by the American Medical Association, and you have a footnote there showing where you got this idea? Senator SMITH. Isn't it true that you show at the head of your statement that you are discussing both bills, S. 545 and S. 1320, and a little later in the same statement you get into the field of compulsory insurance, and it seems to me it would have been proper, as Senator Donnell pointed out, to point out that the American Medical Association found objections to that as well. Otherwise we are a little bit led astray. Senator DONNELL. There is, just two sentences further on, the intermediate sentence being: Experience persuades us that a comprehensive health insurance program must rest on a method of financing which makes it possible for families to budget the costs in accordance with ability to pay. Immediately after that sentence, which is the only one intervening sentence between the reference to this voluntary program, the only sentence between that and then the next one is this: These costs are held to a minimum through broad and compulsory coverage, avoiding the financial and related problems of adverse selection. Compulsion was in the mind of whoever wrote that. Senator MURRAY. It didn't mislead me. I knew that the American Medical Association is against compulsory insurance and I think every member of this committee knows that. I think the people of the country know pretty well that the American Medical Association is opposed to compulsory insurance. Senator SMITH. If there are no further questions, the committee will adjourn until 9:30 tomorrow morning. (Whereupon the subcommittee adjourned at 6: 10 p. m., to reconvene at 9:30 a. m., Thursday, July 10, 1947.) NATIONAL HEALTH PROGRAM THURSDAY, JULY 10, 1947 UNITED STATES SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH OF THE COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE, Washington, D. C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 9:30 a. m., in the committee room in the Capitol Building, Senator H. Alexander Smith presiding. Present: Senators Smith (presiding), Donnell, Murray, and Pepper. Senator SMITH. All right. The committee will please come to order. I understand that Mr. Nelson Cruikshank is here in place of Mr. Matthew Woll, vice president of the American Federation of Labor, and I will ask Mr. Cruikshank if he will come forward and give us his statement. Will you just state for the record, Mr. Cruikshank, your background and how you happen to be here representing Mr. Woll? STATEMENT OF MATTHEW WOLL, SECOND VICE PRESIDENT AND CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL SECURITY, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF LABOR, PRESENTED BY NELSON H. CRUIKSHANK, DIRECTOR, SOCIAL INSURANCE ACTIVITIES Mr. CRUIKSHANK. Mr. Woll was yesterday called back to New York. I saw him at a conference yesterday and he told me that he had sent a telegram to the clerk of the committee-I do not have a copy of that telegram-but he stated that in the telegram he authorized me to speak for him before the committee and to present the position of the American Federation of Labor. Senator SMITH. That is all right, then. Mr. CRUIKSHANK. I believe Mr. Rodgers has the telegram. It was addressed to him and he will make it part of the record. Senator SMITH. We will make this telegram from Matthew Woll, vice president of the American Federation of Labor, part of the record. Mr. CRUIKSHANK. I am presenting this as his statement and therefore it might be better to read the statement and then if the committee wishes to ask me any questions in line with the authorization given me by Mr. Woll they can do so. Senator SMITH. I think that is all right. Senator DONNELL. May I ask, Is this your statement or is it composed by Mr. Woll or by somebody else? 1319 |