thereupon, as early in the week after next as may stand with the convenience of the house. Sir, it would be desirable for any man, who wishes to bring into view a question of great extent and consequence, and for me more than any other, that his audience should be in some degree possessed of the general nature of the subject. I cannot hope, though I very much desire it, that many gentlemen will have taken the trouble to examine attentively the whole of these voluminous pa involved an application to the bishops to bring in a bill to abolish the administration of oaths in general. Upon the whole, thinking the system of regimental courts martial would be every way ameliorated by the clause, he felt it his duty to support it. The question being put their lordships divided, when there appeared for the clause 22, against it 13, majority 9. The bill being gone through without any amendment, the house was resumed, and the report of the bill forthwith received.-Ad-pers relative to the late and present war with journed. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Friday, March 15. [WAR IN INDIA.]-Mr. Francis. Before I proceed to the notice which I propose to give this day, I beg leave to ask the noble lord on the other side a question for information, very fit to be given to the house, and materially connected with the subject which I mean to bring under their consideration. By the papers on the table it appears that the war now or lately carried on in India against Holcar, was declared by lord Wel lesly so long ago as the 16th of April, 1804, and I presume must have been in his contemplation some time before that date. This we know indirectly through the government of Bombay. My question is, whether at this day the Court of Directors or the Select Committee have received any direct communication from lord Wellesley of the origin and the motives of this war Lord Castlereagh. My answer to the question put to me by the hon gent. is that, at this day, no advices have been received directly from lord Wellesley, concerning the origin and the motives of the war with Holcar. the Mahrattas. To save them some trouble, and perhaps to invite them to read more and to enter farther into the inquiry, there are a few principle documents which I think will give a general insight into the subject, and engage them to proceed, and which I therefore beg leave to recommend to their attention. The instructions to colonel Collins; the instructions to colonel Close; the treaty of Bassein, from which, as it appears to me, the war may be dated; and, finally, the map of India annexed to the papers. Lord Castlereagh.-The notice given by the hon. gent. is so general and undefined, that I am at a loss to conjecture what the objects ar which he has in his view, and to which I should of course wish to turn my own thoughts. I therefore hope and request that the hon. gent. will state more distinctly the points to which his intended motion is directed, or at least the particular subjects which he means to discuss. Mr. Francis made no reply. [SALT DUTY BILL.] Mr. Fox wished to state to his majesty's ministers the substance of a communication which he received by a letter from Yorkshire. It observed, that by the last Salt Duty bill there was a severe penalty laid on all retail shopkeepers who should sell at any thing lower than the Mr. Francis. The fact of itself deserves standard price, and the same penalty was the attention of the house; since nothing exacted in that now in its progress. When can be more precise and peremptory than the present bill was brought in, an officer the injunction of the law, by which the Go-was sent down to Rotherham, and the places vernor General and Council are ordered, in all cases where hostilities shall be commenced, to communicate the same to the Directors, by the most expeditious means they can devise, with a full state of the information and intelligence upon which they shall have commenced such hostilities, and their motives and reasons for the same at large. I now, sir, beg leave to give notice that it is my intention, with permission of the house, to bring under their consideration a general view of the state of the British domínion in India, and to makea motion adjoining, to announce the new duty, and take an account of the stock in hand. In consequence of this, the salt manufacturers ceased to sell; but the retail shopkeers continued to sell at four-pence halfpenny a quart, as before, for which informa tions were laid against them to recover the penalties. He wished to know whether these proceedings took place by the autho rity of government? The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that the sending down of the officer was cer tainly premature, and that it would be un reasonable to inflict any penalties upon the land if he wanted a clue, he would refer to shopkeepers. [REPORT OF THE IRISH BUDGET.]—Mr. Foster moved the order of the day for bringing up the report of the committee of ways and means of Ireland. the memorable failure in 1800. These ba lances were so enormous a grievance, tha as long as he had a seat in that house, he should bring the subject annually under the consideration of Parliament. Were these sums available, they would have superseded the necessity of a loan in this country of 24 millions for Ireland, and it would be easy to recede from the plan of borrowing another million, and to issue government paper in the room of it. Even the four millions revenue promised, must be more uncertain under this system, as it must come through the hands of the same bankrupt collectors, who were already so very much in arrear. To prove the hardships Ireland laboured under, he contended, that one of its greatest difficulties arose from the debt it con purchasing the representations of boroughs necessary to be disfranchised for the purposes of the union.-He did not see why this should fall exclusively on Ireland, or why England, which benefitted by the union, should not pay a part of the expences of it. On these and various other grounds, he maintained that his country ex would resist new taxes in Ireland, while there was a considerable balance due to it from England, which had the means of payment. Mr. J. Fitzgerald opposed the bringing up of the report. He contended, that the loan was made to a larger amount than was necessary, and that if it were even necessary, the interest of it might be defrayed without having recourse to any new taxes. The revenue of Ireland was only taken at 4 millions; though every body knew that it would be considerably more. In the last year, the right hon. gent. (Mr. Foster) imposed additional taxes of 1,150,000l. by way of regulation, and 76,000l. to defray the expences of a direct loan; and he now stated, that there was out of last year's revenue a sur-tracted in the year 1800, for the purpose of plus of 843,000l. but that it must remain locked up in the Irish treasury until the proportion of Ireland to the joint expences of the empire should be paid. Upon this practice of retaining the surplus of the consolidated fund since the union, it would follow, that there must be now a total surplus of about 4 millions applicable to the expences of the year. This was a mode of proceed-pected from the right hon. gent. that he ing very disadvantageous to Ireland. He sacrificed much by opposing the union; but now that it was effected, he considered the two countries as one, and thought they should be treated equally. The sums re- Mr. Dawson said, the hon. gent. who turned of duties due, but not immediately spoke last had anticipated much of what he payable, were to the amount of 636,3461. had intended to state. He confessed, that which either were or ought to be now in some of the taxes proposed appeared to him the treasury of Ireland. This, as well as unexceptionable, though there were many the balances in the hands of the collectors, of the articles upon which he wished all ought to be a productive fund, and if it was taxes to be abolished in that country. Though not, he must call upon those who promised he had no objection whatever to the duty Ireland so much benefit from the union to proposed on raisins, pepper, and coffee, yet put an end to this system of patronage and he had every objection to an encreased duty influence. It was allowed on all hands, to on timber. Instead of being, as stated, a be a very great grievance to that country, protection to the growing plantations in Ireand yet, notwithstanding so many com- land, it would encourage the cutting down plaints, the government had not removed of what little timber there was, and leave any one of these collectors, though in a the cottages of the miserable peasantry perman's private concerns he would not allow fectly unroofed. The present plantations an agent to pay himself, and also retain an being only in their infancy, would not be eighth part of his receipts, unless, on the available in less than half a century, and, assurance that the balance was quite safe. to depend upon them for immediate purHe had a right, therefore, to take it for poses, would be as absurd as that of a man granted, that this was a solvent and sufficient who, being advised to drink cyder, should answer, for which reason he should bring it set about planting an orchard. He also reinto the amount of the year. He would probated the tax upon horses, and he could even venture to ask the right hon. gent. not well discriminate between horses for whether he had reason to think that a re-pleasure and horses for use, as they were mission was given of any of these balances? both so generally united; but what he de precated most was, the precedent which might induce some future chancellor of the exchequer to extend the tax to horses used in agriculture. He touched upon all the articles in the catalogue of taxes, and dwelt principally on the Postage Duty, to which he would, however, make no objection, in consequence of the assurance given by the right hon. gent. that the posts would be pro tected, and he also hoped that the revenue of it would be collected with more regularity and economy, instead of costing the country, as it did now, an expence of 11. 16s. per cent. While these subjects were under consideration, he hoped some attention would be paid to the districts of houses in Ireland, and for the distillery of that pernicious spirit called whiskey, which, though under excise, did not produce a shilling to the exchequer, while posts of smugglers were stationed through all parts of the country. To prevent these smuggling abuses, he hoped measures would be taken for establishing maritime turnpike gates, between the ports of Dublin, Waterford, and Donaghadee, and a more direct communication opened between the coast of Carnarvon and Ireland. in the middle of the day by a single man, only armed with a stick. The effect of this was that the letters from Waterford to Clonmell were obliged to be sent by special messengers, as none but boys are employed by the post-office. At the general postoffice the letters were thrown by carelessly and promiscuously, and accessible to any one who should think proper to call for them. When the letters were sent out, it was usual for the postman to go home first to dinner, and then leave the letters behind him, while he went to a public house; so that if the expectant merchant went to the man's residence, he found the letters lying there totally unprotected; and the bills and notes were very generally either lost or embezzled. The costs of the accountants now were at their own discretion, liable to no check whatever, as there was no person to check them; and such he complained was the case in all the public boards and offices in Ireland. Mr. Hawthorne said, that the balances of the collectors, though stated at 1,200,0001. were actually no more than 130,000l. as the duties were not yet paid, which were to produce the remainder. As to the general state of the country, he said, that so far from Ireland's being unfairly dealt with, the expences of the army, and works ne greater sum than the whole of its proportion to the joint expence of the empire; so that its taxes must have been much greater only for the union. To prove this, he referred to the accounts, which would shew, that the proportion of its debt accumulated more in the four years before the union, than in the four years since it had been carried into effect. Sir J. Newport thought that the schedule, comprising such a multitude of merchandise, should have been submitted to the inspection of mercantile men, as it was im-cessary for its defence, amounted to a much possible for any member of that house to be so good a judge of the local effect such taxes may have in different places, as the parties more immediately concerned. In referring to that schedule, he found the duties on spermaceti candles, copper, tar, &c. raised to seven times their former duties, while rattans, walking sticks, and other inferior articles, experienced a diminution. As to timber, he said the last duty had diminished the consumption so much, since the union, that the revenue on them was 11,000l. The present tax, he thought, would reduce the consumption so much, that the duty would not pay the expence of the collection, and would render the cottages uninhabitable. The want of domestic comforts at home frequently encouraged the inhabitants of the country to idleness and riotous conduct at home. In the south of Ireland, the want of timber was a most grievous hardship, as in the county of Tipperary there were farms to the extent of sometimes 2 miles, without a hedge or bush to be seen upon them. He complained greatly of the want of security to the mails in Ireland, which were sometimes robbed VOL. IV. Mr. Foster said, he deemed it unnecessary to go into a detail of all the branches of the taxes alluded to. The appropriation of the produce of the sinking fund in Ireland was to pay the expences of the loan, the ratio of its separate expences, and paying the usual sum towards the sinking fund. If then there were arrears of money, there were also arrears of charges, and it was ne cessary to leave balances in the hands of the collectors to prepare for any contingency, and not be unprepared for any thing that may happen in case of any attempt on the part of the enemy. In fact, if these funds were taken away, there would be a necessity for other supplies to defray the coming charges, and if any part remained undis posed of, it would come in aid of the sup D and with peculiar hardship, on the retail importer, while the wholesale importer was altogether exempt from' it. It therefore affected greatly the commercial industry of the country, and, as such, he hoped the right hon. gent. would agree to relinquish it. Mr. J. Latouche opposed the tax, as a tax upon the industry of retailers, who, if it was not for this duty, could, by united speculations, become themselves wealthy merchants in the course of time. Mr. Ker stated that the tax was not only unjust, but it was almost unproductive, and should on every account be abandoned. Sir C. Price considered this duty as 2 check to the progress of commerce, by discouraging the activity of men of small capitals, and particularly injurious to the commerce between this country and Ireland. Sir G. Hill contended that the tax would prove of singular detriment to Ireland. He felt the impolicy of a tax on the retail dealers, and believed that it would undermine the internal trade of the Irish. plies of the ensuing year. He owned, indeed, that the balances remaining with the collectors were very great, in spite of all the exertions he had made to prevent it; but such had been long the practice in Ireland, and old habits could not speedily be got rid of. In respect to the duty on timber, he was glad the objections were stated, as this tax was mostly confined to deal board and staves; and all timber used in the butter and provision trade were totally exempted. The new duty, which was no more than 4s. 6d. on 72 cubic feet of timber of the value of 61. would be scarcely felt by any one, for when, in consequence of the war, the price of the same quantity of timber rose from 31. to 61. the buildings continued without any diminution. In regard to the horse tax, also, gentlemen would find the exemptions were extended to all horses which carried or brought home a load; to all those used by clergymen, physicians, &c.; to those on which farmers rode to places of worship, to markets, or to the quarter sessions. He admitted that the conveyance of Sir J. Newport thought it only tended to the mails was very insecure, and would re-produce and encourage manifold, manifest, main so, unless, for the convenience of the and absolute frauds. public, and the safety of letters, the Postoffice was enabled to employ other messengers than boys, who loitered on the way, and were exposed to robberies. To shew what uncertain couriers these were, he mentioned an instance of a gentleman who met one of these post-boys playing on the road, and the bag of letters lying by him. When the gentleman asked him how he could be so careless and dilatory? the boy replied, "Oh, please your honour, that is not the mail, it is only an express." In proportion to the frequency of robberies, he said, in the same proportion must be the number of prosecutions, which rendered the expence of the collection something more than 1001. per cent.-The first resolution was then read and agreed to. On reading the second resolution, for the 6 per cent. duties, Mr. Fox wished that, as the tax would bear particularly hard on the retail trader, it might be abandoned. Mr. Foster said that the tax had existed since the days of Cha. II. The operation of the tax was confined to tobacco, tea, and brandy. on the brandy. He was not for speculative opinions respecting taxes during a period of war. He would not think of giving up this tax, while he adhered to that on timber. He was grateful to the merchants of London for their advice to the merchants of Ireland; and hoped that the former would not decline taking that of the latter, on such questions as might tend to the general advantage of the two countries. The wholesale dealers had purchased the tax by sacrifices at the time it was first laid on; and the wholesale dealer had now a right to have his interests properly guarded. Mr. May rose, and said, he had presented a petition against these duties, from the inhabitants of Belfast, and he begged the patience of the house till he stated a few observations in support of the petition of his constituents. They had not, he said, desired him to present it, from any wish to exempt themselves from the payments of taxes in general, but from a wish to have taxes imposed in such a manner, as to bear equally on all descriptions of persons. This tax was not so constituted, but bore entirely, Mr. Corry was unfriendly to the tax. Three sessions ago, he had proposed the repeal of the tax. Yet, from good dispositions towards the right hon. gent. (Mr. Foster), he had discouraged his own constituents from sending to him petitions against it, because he did not wish to cast obstacles in the way of the right hon. gent. in devising the taxes. He was not for taxing the patient retail dealer, tugging at the oar of in dustry, and catching every fleeting breeze to make his little bark gain in safety the baven Mr. Hawthorne could not assent to the motion. The tax was a bad one in every | view of its operation and tendency. of his hopes. Had ever such a tax pre- his majesty to different, persons, and the vailed in England? There ought to be a several resolutions were agreed to.-A messimilarity of situation and regulation with sage from the lords informed the house, regard to the trade of every quarter of the that their lordships had agreed to the Proempire. The union was founded on a prin-perty Duty bill, Salt Duty bill, Mutiny bill, ciple of equality, and of similarity of situa- and several private bills, without any amendtion; and of this the assimilation of the cur- ments.-Mr. Foster brought up the Irish rency of the two countries furnished some Export and Import Duty bill, Inland Duty proof. bill, Stamp Duty bill, Postage Duty bill, and Malt and Spirit Duty bill, which were severally read a first time.—Mr. W. Dickinson brought up an account of the rates of exchange of the bills drawn by admiral Blanket and sir H. Popham, during their stations in the Red Sea. Ordered to lie on the table and to be printed. The report of the Royal Marine Mutiny bill was brought up and agreed to.-The Sugar Drawback bill was committed.-The Exchequer Bills bill, and Expiring Laws bill, were read a 2d time.-Adjourned. Mr. Princep entered his solemn protest against a tax notoriously bearing on the industry of the individual, so as to lead to his ruin.-The question being called for, the house divided: for the 6 per cent. impost duty 107, against it 44, majority 63.The other resolutions were then read, and agreed -to. [LEGACY DUTY BILL.-The Chanccllor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day for going into a committee on the Legacy Duty bill. As he had learned since he came into the house, that some difference of opinion existed respecting this measure, he should only observe then, that there were other stages in which it might be discussed. Mr. For stated that there would be a considerable difference of opinion relative to that part of it which imposes a duty only on legacies to children, However, as there would be other stages for discussing it, he should forbear for the present from any opposition, reserving that for the report. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had not heard any thing to induce him to alter his opinion, or to give up what would be the most material part of the tax, amounting to 200,000l. He was ready to pay every attention to any observation on the subject. The bill then passed through the committee, and the report was ordered to be received on Tuesday.-Adjourned. HOUSE OF LORDS. Saturday, March 16. [MINUTES.]-The Salt Duty bill, the Property Duty bill, and the Mutiny bill, were read a 3d time and passed, and a message sent to the commons to acquaint them therewith--Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Saturday, March 16. [MINUTES.]-Mr. Alexander brought up the report of the committee of supply respecting the sums voted in pursuance of addresses of the house, and sums issued by HOUSE OF LORDS. Monday, March 18. [MINUTES.-The Royal Assent was given by commission to the Pleasure Horse Duty bill, the Salt Duty bill, the Property Tax bill, the Mutiny bill, and 3 private bills. Mr. Dickinson, jun. brought up the Royal Marine Mutiny bill, and two private bills, which were severally read a first time. Lord Melville, pursuant to his intimation on a former evening, presented a great number of naval documents. These, after some conversation between lord Darnley and the noble viscount, were ordered to lie on the table.-The duke of Clarence intimated his intention to move for the production of further documents to-morrow, for which day it was understood their lordships were summoned.-Mr. Parnell, from the Irish treasury, presented an account of the sums remitted from England to Ireland, during the year ending the 1st of last month.-Adjourned, HOUSE OF COMMONS. Monday, March 18. [MINUTES.]-The Speaker informed the house that he had been in the house of peers, where the royal assent was given by Commission to the Pleasure Horse Duty bill, to the Salt Duty bill, and to the Property Tax Amendment bill.-On the mo tion of Mr. W. Dickinson, an amendment was inserted in the Marine Mutiny bill, empowering provisional courts martial to ad❤ |