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involved an application to the bishops to thereupon, as early in the week after next as bring in a bill to abolish the administration may stand with the convenience of the house. of oaths in general. Upon the whole, think- Sir, it would be desirable for any man, who ing the system of regimental courts martial wishes to bring into view a question of great would be every way ameliorated by the extent and consequence, and for me more clause, he felt it his duty to support it.- than any other, that his audience should be The question being put their lordships di- in some degree possessed of the general navided, when there appeared for the clause ture of the subject. I cannot hope, though 22, against it 13, majority 9. The bill I very much desire it, that many gentlemen being gone through without any amend- will have taken the trouble to examine atment, the house was resumed, and the re- tentively the whole of these voluminous
paport of the bill furthwith received. --Ad- pers relative to the late and present war with journed.
the Mahrattas. To save them some trouble, and perhaps to invite them to read more
and to enter farther into the inquiry, there HOUSE OF COMMONS,
are a few principle documents which I think Friday, March 15.
will give a general insight into the subject, (War IX India.]-Mr. Francis. Be. and engage them to proceed, and which I fore I proceed to the notice which I propose therefore beg leave to recommend to their to give this day; I beg leave to ask the no- attention. The instructions to colonel Colble lord on the other side a question for in- lins; the instructions to colonel Close; the formation, very fit to be given to the house, treaty of Bassein, from which, as it appears and materially connected with the subject to me, the war may be dated; and, finally, which I mean to bring under their conside- the map of India annexed to the papers. ration. By the papers on the table it appears Lord Castlereagh.-The notice given by that the war noworlately carried on in India the hon. gent. is so general and undefined, against Holcar, was declared by lord Wel. that I am at a loss to conjecture what the lesly so long ago as the 16th of April, 1804, objects ar. which he has in his view, and and I presume must have been in his con- to which I should of course wish to turn templation some time before that date. This my own thoughts. I therefore hope and fr'e know indirectly through the govern- request that the hon. gent. will state more ment of Bombay. My question is, whether distinctly the points to which his intended at this day the Court of Directors or the motion is directed, or at least the particular Select Committee have received any direct subjects which he means to discuss. communication from lord Welleslev of the Mr. Francis made no reply. ongin and the motives of this war ;
(Salt Duty Bill.]-Mr. For wished Lord Custlereagh.--My answer to the to state to his majesty's ministers the subquestion put to me by the hon. gent. is that, stance of a communication which he receivat this day, no advices have been received ed by a letter from Yorkshire. It observed, directly from lord Wellesley, concerning the that by the last Salt Duty bill there was a origir and the motives of the war with severe penalty laid on all retail shopkeepers Holcar.
who should sell at any thing lower than the Mr. Prancis.-The fact of itself deserves standard price, and the same penalty was the attention of the house ; since nothing exacted in that now in its progress. When can be more precise and peremptory than the present bill was brought in, an officer the injunction of the law, by which the Go. was sent down to Rotherham, and the places vernor General and Council are ordered, in adjoining, to announce the new duty, and all cases where hostilities shall be com- take an account of the stock in hand. In menced, to communicate the same to the consequence of this, the salt manufacturers Directors, by the most expeditious means ceased to sell; but the retail shopkeers they can devise, with a full state of the in- continued to sell at four-pence halfpenny formation and intelligence upon which they a quart, as before, for which informashall have commenced such hostilities, and tions were laid against them to recover their motives and reasons for the same at the penalties. He wished to know whether large. I now, sir, beg leave to give no- these proceedings took place by the autho tice that it is my intention, with permission rity of government? of the house, to bring under their conside- The Chancellor of the Excheqer replied, ration a general view of the state of the Bri- that the sending down of the officer was cer: tish dominion in India, and to makea motion tainly premaime, and that it would be un
reasonable to inflict any penalties upon the and if he wanted a clue, he would refer to shopkeepers.
the memorable failure in 1800. These ba[REPORT OF THEIRış BUDGET.]--Mr. lances were so enormous a grievance, that Foster moved the order of the day for bring- as long as he had a seat in that house, he ing up the report of the committee of ways should bring the subject annually under the and means of Ireland.
consideration of Parliament. Were these
. Mr. J. Fitzgerald opposed the bringing sums available, they would have superseded up of the report. He contended, that the the necessity of a loan in this country of 21 loan was made to a larger amount than was millions for Ireland, and it would be easy necessary, and that if it were even necessary, to recede from the plan of borrowing anthe interest of it might be defrayed with other million, and to issue government paper out having recourse to any new taxes. The in the room of it. Even the four millions revenue of Ireland was only taken at 4 mil. revenue promised, must be more uncertain lions ; though every body knew that it would under this system, as it must come through be considerably more. In the last year, the the hands of the same bankrupt collectors, right hon. gent: (Mr. Foster) imposed addi- who were already so very much in arrear. tional taxes of 1,150,000l. by way of regu- To prove the hardships Ireland laboured lation, and 76,000l. to defray the expences under, he contended, that one of its greatof a direct loan; and he now stated, that est difficulties arose from the debt it conthere was out of last year's revenue a sur-tracted in the year 1800, for the purpose
of plus of 843,0001. but that it must remain purchasing the representations of boroughs locked
ир in the Irish treasury until the pro- necessary to be disfranchised for the purportion of Ireland to the joint expences of poses of the union. -He did not see why the empire should be paid." Upon this prac- this should fall exclusively on Ireland, or tice of retaining the surplus of the consoli- why England, which benefitted by the dated fund since the union, it would follow, union, should not pay a part of the exthat there must be now a total surplus of pences of it. On these and various other about 4 millions applicable to the expences grounds, he maintained that his country exof the year. This was a mode of proceed pected from the right hon. gent. that he ing very disadvantageous to Ireland. He would resist new taxes in Ireland, while sacrificed much by opposing the union; but there was a considerable balance due to it now that it was effected, he considered the from England, which had the means of paytwo countries as one, and thought they ment. should be treated equally. The sums re- Mr. Durson said, the hon. gent. who turned of duties due, but not immediately spoke last had anticipated much of what he payable, were to the amount of 636,3461. had intended to state. He confessed, that which either were or ought to be now in some of the taxes proposed appeared to him the treasury of Ireland. This, as well as unexceptionable, ihough there were many the balances in the hands of the collectors, of*the articles upon which he wished all ought to be a productive fund, and if it was taxes to be abolished in that country. Though 110t, he must call upon those who promised he had no objection whatever to the duty Ireland so much benefit from the union to proposed on 'raisins, pepper, and coffee, yet put an end to this system of patronage and he had every objection to an encreased duty influence. It was allowed on all hands, to on timber. Instead of being, as stated, a be a very great grievance to that country, protection to the growing plantations in Ireand yet, notwithstanding so many com- land, it would encourage the cutting down plaints, the government had not removed of what little timber there was, and leave any one of these collectors, though in a the cottages of the miserable peasantry perinan's private concerns he would not allow fectly unroofed. The present plantations an agent to pay himself, and also retain an being only in their infancy, would not be eighth part of his receipts
, unless, on the available in less than half a century, and, assurance that the balance was quite safe.-- to depend upon them for immediate purHe had a right, therefore, to take it for poses, would be as absurd as that of a man granted, that this was a solvent and sufficient whe), being advised to drink cyder, should answer, for which reason he should bring it set about planting an orchard. · He also reinto the amount of the year. He would probated the tax upon horses, and he could even venture to ask the right hon. gent. not well discriminate between horses for whether he had reason to think that a re- pleasure and horses for use, as they were mission was given of any of these balances? both so generally united; but what he de.
precated most was, the precedent which in the middle of the day by a single man, might induce some future chancellor of the only armed with a stick. The effect of exchequer to extend the tax to horses used this was that the letters from Waterford to in agriculture. He touched upon all the Clonmell were obliged to be sent by special articles in the catalogue of taxes, and dwelt messengers, as none but boys are employed principally on the Postage Duty, to which by the post-office. At the general posthe would, however, make no objection, in office the letters were thrown by carelessly consequence of the assurance given by the and promiscuously, and accessible to any right hon. gent. that the posts would be pro one who should think proper to call for tected, and he also hoped that the revenue them. When the letters were sent out, it of it would be collected with more regula- was usual for the postman to go home first rity and economy, instead of costing the to dinner, and then leave the letters behind country, as it did now, an expence of 11. him, while he went to a public house; so 16s. per cent. While these subjects were that if the expectant merchant went to the under consideration, he hoped some atten- man's residence, he found the letters lying tion would be paid to the districts of houses there totally unprotected; and the bills and in Ireland, and for the distillery of that per notes were very generally either lost or emnicious spirit called whiskey, which, though bezzled. The costs of the accountants now under excise, did not produce a shilling to were at their own discretion, liable to no the exchequer, while posts of smugglers check whatever, as there was no person to were stationed through all parts of the check them; and such he complained was country. To prevent these smuggling the case in all the public boards and offices abuses, he hoped measures would be taken in Ireland. for establishing maritime turnpike gates, be- Mr. Huwthorne said, that the balances of tween the ports of Dublin, Waterford, and the collectors, though stated at 1,200,0001. Donaghadee, and a more direct communi- were actually no more than 130,0001. as the cation opened between the coast of Carnar- duties were not yet paid, which were to provon and Ireland.
duce the remainder. As to the general Sir d. Neroport thought that the schedule, state of the country, he said, that so far comprising such a multitude of merclian- from Ireland's being unfairly dealt with, dise, should have been submitted to the in- the expences of the army, and works nespection of mercantile men, as it was im- cessary for its defence, amounted to a much possible for any member of that house to greater sum than the whole of its proportion be so good a judge of the local effect such to the joint expence of the empire; so that taxes may have in different places, as the its taxes must have been much greater only parties more immediately concerned. In for the union. To prove this, he referred referring to that schedule, he found the du- to the accounts, which would shew, that the ties on spermaceti candles, copper, tar, &c. proportion of its debt accumulated more in raised to seven times their former duties, the four years before the union, than in the while rattans, walking sticks, and other in four years since it had been carried into ferior articles, experienced a diminution effect. As to timber, he said the last duty had di- Mr. Foster said, he deemed it unnecessary minished the consumption so much, since to go into a detail of all the branches of the the onion, that the revenue on them was taxes alluded to. The appropriation of the 11,000l. The present tax, he thought, produce of the sinking fund in Ireland was would reduce the consumption so much, to pay the expences of the loan, the ratio that the duty would not pay the expence of of its separate expences, and paying the the collection, and would render the cot- usual sum towards the sinking fund. If tages uninhabitable. The want of domes- then there were arrears of money, there tic comforts at home frequently encouraged were also arrears of charges, and it was ne. the inhabitants of the country to idleness cessary to leave balances in the hands of the and riotous conduct at home. In the south collectors to prepare for any contingency, of Ireland, the want of timber was a most and not be unprepared for any thing that grievous hardship, as in the county of Tip- may happen in case of any attempt on the perary there were farms to the extent of part of the enemy. In fact, if these funds sometimes 2 miles, without a hedge or bush were taken away, there would be a neces. to be seen upon them. He complained (sity for other supplies to defray the coming greatly of the want of security to the mails charges, and if any part remained undise in Ireland, which were sometimes robbed posed of, it would come in aid of the sup Vol. IV,
plies of the ensuing year. He owned, in- land with peculiar hardship, on the re deed, that the balances remaining with the importer, while the wholesale importer collectors were'very great, in spite of all the altogether exempt from' it. It theref exertions he had made to prevent it; but affected greatly the commercial industry such had been long the practice in Ireland, the country, and, as such, he hoped and old habits could not speedily be got rid right hon. gent. would agree to relinquish of. In respect to the duty on timber, he Mr. J. Latouche opposed the tax, as a was glad the objections were stated, as this upon the industry of retailers, who, if tax was mostly confined to deal board and was not for this duty, could, by united sp staves; and all timber used in the butter and culations, become themselves wealthy me provision trade were totally exempted. The cants in the course of time. new duty, which was no more than 4s. 6d. on Mr. Ker stated that the tax was not onl 72 cubic feet of timber of the value of 61. unjust, but it was almost unproductive, an would be scarcely felt by any one, for should on every account be abandoned. when, in consequence of the war, the Sir C. Price considered this duty as price of the same quantity of timber rose check to the progress of commerce, by disfrom 31. to 61. the buildings continued couraging the activity of men of small cawithout any diminution. In regard to the pitals, and particularly injurious to the comhorse tax, also, gentlemen would find the merce between this country and Ireland. exemptions were extended to all horses Sir G. Hill contended that the tax would which carried or brought home a load; to prove of singular detriment to Ireland. He all those used by clergymen, physicians, &c.; felt the impolicy of a tax on the retail to those on which farmers rode to places of dealers, and believed that it would underworship, to markeis, or to the quarter ses- mine the internal trade of the Irish. sions. He admitted that the conveyance of Sir J. Neroport thought it only tended to the mails was very insecure, and would re- produce and encourage manifold, manifest, main so, unless, for the convenience of the and absolnte frauds. public, and the safety of letters, the Post- Mr. For wished that, as the tax would office was enabled to employ other messen- bear particularly hard on the retail trader, it gers than boys, who loitered on the way, might be abandoned. and were exposed to robberies. To shew Mr. Foster said that the tax had existed what uncertain couriers these were, he since the days of Cha. II. The operation mentioned an instance of a gentleman who of the tax was confined to tobacco, tea, and met one of these post-boys playing on the brandy. He was not for speculative opiroad, and the bag of letters lying by him. nions respecting taxes during a period of When the gentleman asked him how he war. He would not think of giving up this could be so careless and dilatory? the boy tax, wbile he adhered to that on timber. replied, “Oh, please your honour, that is He was grateful to the merchants of Lonnot the mail, it is only an express.” In pro- don for their advice to the merchants of portion to the frequency of robberies,' he Ireland; and hoped that the former would said, in the same proportion must be the not decline taking that of the latter, on number of prosecutions, which rendered such questions as might tend to the general the expence of the collection something advantage of the two countries. The more than 100l. per cent.The first resolu- wholesale dealers had purchased the tax by tion was then read and agreed to. On reading sacrifices at the time it was first laid on; and the second resolution, for the 6 per cent. the wholesale dealer had now a right to duties,
have his interests properly guarded. Mr. May rose, and said, he had presented Mr. Corry was unfriendly to the tax. a petition against these duties, from the in. Three sessions ago, he had proposed the rehabitants of Belfast, and he begged the pa- peal of the tax. Yet, from good dispositions tience of the house till he stated a few ob- towards the right hon. gent. (Mr. Foster), servations in support of the petition of his he had discouraged his own constituents constituents. They had not, he said, de- from sending to him petitions against it, sired him to present it, from any wish to because he did not wish to cast obštacles in exempt themselves from the payments of the way of the right hon. gent, in devising taxes in general, but from a wish to have the taxes. He was not for taxing the pas taxes imposed in such a manner, as to bear tient retail dealer, tugging at the oar of inequally on all descriptions of persons. This dustry, and catching every fleeting breeze to tax was not so constituted, but bore entirely, make his little bark gain in safety the baver
HOUSE OF LORDS.
of his hopes. Had ever such a tax pre- his majesty to different persons, and the vailed in England? There ought to be a several resolutions were agreed to.-A messimilarity of situation and regulation with sage from the lords informed the house, regard to the trade of every quarter of the that their lordships had agreed to the Proempire. The union was founded on a prin- perty Duty bill, Salt Duty bill, Mutiny bill, ciple of equality, and of similarity of situa- and several private bills, without any ainendtion; and of this the assimilation of the cur- ments.--Mr. Foster brought up the Irish rency of the two countries furnished some Export and Import Duty bill, Inland Duty proof.
bill, Stamp Duty bill, Postage Duty bill, Mír. Hawthorne could not assent to the aud Malt and Spirit Duty bill
, which were motion. The tax was a bad one in every severally read a first time.-Mr. W. Dickinview of its operation and tendency. son brought up an account of the rates of
Mr. Princep entered his solemn protest / exchange of the bills drawn by admiral against a tax notoriously bearing on the in- Blanket and sir H. Popham, during their dustry of the individual, so as to lead to his stations in the Red Sea. Ordered to lie on ruin. The question being called for, the the table and to be printed. The report of house divided for the 6 per cent. impost the Royal Marine Mutiny bill was brought duty 107, against it 44, majority 63.-The up and agreed to.-Thé Sugar Drawback other resolutions were then read, and agreed bill was committed.—The Exchequer Bills to.
bill, and Expiring Laws bill, were read a (LEGACY Duty BILL.-The Chanccl- 2d time.-Adjourned. lor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day for going into a committee on the Legacy Duty bill. As he had learned since he came into the house, that some difference of
Monday, March 18. opinion existed respecting this measure, he [MINUTES. -The Royal Assent was should only observe then, that there were given by commission to the Pleasure Horse other stages in which it might be discussed. Duty bill, the Salt Duty bill, the Property
Mr. For stated that there would be a con- Tax bill, the Mutiny bill, and 3 private bills. siderable difference of opinion relative to -Mr. Dickinson, jun. brought up the that part of it which imposes a duty only Royal Marine Mutiny bill, and two private on legacies to children. However, as there bills, which were severally read a first time. would be other stages for discussing it, he Lord Melville, pursuant to his intimation should forbear for the present from any op- on a former evening, presented a great numposition, reserving that for the report, ber of naval documents. These, after some
The Chancellor of the Exchequer had not conversation between lord Darnley and the heard any thing to induce him to alter his noble viscount, were ordered to lie on the opinion, or to give up what would be the table.--The duke of Clarence intimated his most material part of the tax, amounting to intention to move for the production of fur200,000). He was ready to pay every at- ther documents to-morrow, for which day tention to any observation on the subject.- it was understood their lordships were sumThe bill then passed through the committee, moned.--Mr. Parnell, from the Irish treaand the report was ordered to be received sury, presented an account of the sums reon Tuesday.-Adjourned.
mitted from England to Ireland, during the
HOUSE OF COMMONS,
Monday, March 18.
house that he had been in the house of
peers, where the royal assent was given by HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Commission to the Pleasure Horse Duty Saturday, March 16.
bill, to the Salt Duty bill, and to the Pro[MINUTES) - Mr. Alexander brought perty Tax Amendment bill. On the mo| up the report of the committee of supply tion of Mr. W. Dickinson, an amendment
respecting the sums voted in pursuance of was inserted in the Marine Mutiny bill, emaddresses of the house, and sums issued by powering provisional courts martial to ad,
HOUSE OF LORDS.