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imputed to him. He never asserted that punishment. The plain question is, whethe mode now proposed would wholly or ther the house thinks that enough has been necessarily fail of effect; he only said that done? If they think enough has been done, great difficulties might arise to obstruct they will vote for a civil process, in conthe end it attempted to accomplish. If cert with the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt). it was the object of the mover to obtain If they think the public expect that pupecuniary redress for the public, the court nishment should follow guilt, they will of King's Bench might not be able to adopt the criminal proceeding. With regrant that redress. It could not grant it gard to the questions referred to the comunless evidence was adduced of the dis- mittee, namely, how far the right hon. tinct amount of lord Melville's participa- gent., as first lord of the treasury, may be tion in the illegal profits. Otherwise an concerned, and two or three others, they enormous fine might be attempted to be are only so many episodes, while the main imposed upon him, which the court would story out of which they arise, is not to be not be able to make out. Better hopes touched. I lament that we are driven to of the recovery of the money for ihe pub- this course ; but I think our character lic might be entertained, therefore, from and our duty to the public require that a civil than a criminal prosecution, and we should send viscount Melville to that from that persuasion he should vote for tribunal where justice may inflict punishthe adoption of the former.
ment wherever convicted guilt deserves it. Mr. Tierney.- I cannot agree in the Mr. Serjeant Best challenged any law scanty and restricted powers which some officer of the crown to state, that any good honourable and learned gentlernen will was likely to result from the mode they only allow to this house. I always thought, supported. The books and papers of that by the spirit of the constitution it third parties could not be called for. All possessed stronger inquisitorial powers that was wanted could be got by a crimithan any other tribunal in the country. The nal prosecution. If a mau was not proright hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) would have nounced guilty who refused to answer a it understood, that the house does not wish question, still no jury would be found to to proceed to any more punishment against declare bim innocent who was a self-conlord Melville; but I contend, on the con-victed violator of the law. The wound trary, that the house has not shewn any inflicted was not much in point of fortune, disposition to stop here. We have voted considering the places the noble lord still that lord Melville has violated the law, for retained. It must then be sought in his private emolument. What then is the character. But if it was there, it was next question? Why give us the money strange indeed that, with such a wounded back again, and we have done with you? character, be should remain a private coun. But bow are we to get the money? The sellor of his sovereign. The house then diattorney-general gives very little hope of vided on the question, “ that the words the mode proposed; and therefore I approve proposed to be left out stand part of this of a committee of the whole house as the question," Ayes 223, Noes 128, majobest mode of getting at the crime, the pu- rity 95. The amendment was of course nishment, and pecuniary redress. I feel rejected, and the original motion carried. it an unpleasant task to rise for the purpose Mr. Fox then moved, “ that the house of defending the dignity of the house. The do now adjourn;" and on this question house may not waste its time upon persons there was another division, Ayes 98, of inferior note; but I contend that there Noes 240, majority 142.-While strangers is no precedent of a minister, high in the were excluded, the report of the commitking's councils for many years, breaking tee appointed to examine the lists given in the law, and suspected of a corrupt motive on the ballot for the select committee was in doing so, being handed over to the at- brought up. On reading the report, it torney-general. I am confident there is nu appeared that the names of the members case nor precedent of the kind. I disclaim chosen for the committee corresponded a vindictive spirit towards viscount Mel- exactly with those in the list read on Friville, and assert, that my conduct yields to day by Mr. Whitbread. no influence, except a sincere regard for Mr. Whitbread then stated, that it was the honour of the house of commons. I his intention to move that some of the think, therefore, that the bouse cannot names on this list should be expunged ; stop here, but, that it must call for some but as that motion would probably occasion some debate, be proposed that its con-bring forward. The attorney general said sideration should be adjourned until the that it was still his intention to move next meeting of the house.
Adjourued. for an amendment of the law alluded
to; but he did not think right to do HOUSE OF LORDS.
so, wbile discussions were pending in
the Irisḥ courts of law on the true Tuesday, April 30.
construction of it with respect to that (Minutes.] Their lordships proceeded country.-Sir Andrew S. Hamond, purfurther in the Appea), Blanę, esq. Trustee suant to notice, moved, “ that there be for sir Andrew Cathcart, against the earl laid before the house a copy of the letter os Cassilis. Mr.H. Erskine was heard in of the navy board to the admiralty, dated continuation on the part of the respoodent, the 5th of April 1805, together with a after which the further consideration was copy of the memorial inclosed, relating to postponed till Thursday. Several private the answer of the navy board to the first bills were brought from the commons, report of the commissioners of naval enand read a first time. Mr. Owen, from quiry.” Şir Charles Pole did not mean to the East India house, «presented certain object to the motion, but to say, that be accounts pursuant to act of parliament, hoped, by the papers it would appear Awhich were ordered to lie on the table. that the navy board had recovered the The order of the day being moved for the money said to have been lost in that resecond reading of the bill for dissolving port. Two years had already elapsed the marriage of John Moore, esq. and Bar. since the report had been made. Sir A. bara Brabazon, bis late wife, and for.en- S. Hamond replied, that no time had abling him to marry again. Mr. Adam been lost by the navy board. They had put was heard as counsel for the petitioner. the matter into the hands of the law offiIt appeared that there was an inaccuracy cers of the crown. The papers were then in the recital of one of the clauses of the ordered; and were immediately after prebill, and on that account the party obtain- sented by Mr. Dickinson, and ordered to ed leave to withdraw it, for the purpose lie on the table and to be printed.- A petiof introducing a new one. The hearing tion of the proprietors of the Croydon of counsel was theu postponed to Thurs-canal, waspresented to the house, and read; day next.--Adjourned.
noticing the bill for supplying the inha
bitants of Camberwell, and parts of St. HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mary's, Lambeth, and several other pa
rishes and places in Surry and Kent, with Tuesday, April 30.
water; and setting forth, that, by an act [MINUTES.] The Thames 'Tuonel bill of the 41st of his majesty, the petitioners was read a second time, and was ordered were invested with full powers for supto be committed. - Mr. Lee obtained plying the towns of Croydon, Streatham, deave to bring in a bill to supply cities &c. with water from the said canal, and and market towns in Ireland with water. that the powers proposed to be obtained --The secretary at war presented an esti- by the said bill will materially injure the mate of the expences of volunteer and yeo- rights and interests of the petitioners unmanry corps, which he gave notice, would der the said act; and therefore praying, be referred to the committee of Supply &c. Ordered, that the said petition be on Friday next; in which committee Mr. referred to the committee to whom the Pitt also gave notice, that he would move said bill is committed; &c. the army extraordinaries.--Mr.J.Fitzgerald (MIDDLESEX ELECTIOX.) Mr. Henry called the attention of the house to an ex- Thornton, pursuant to his notice yesterday, traordinary construction (the arrest of rose to move for the discharge of the order judge Johnson) which had been put upon for taking into consideration the petition the act nuade for the purpose of arresting complaining of the want of qualificatiou of felons and traitors in any other part of the Mr. Mainwaring, on Thursday the 2d of ., united kingdom. He was proceeding to May. There were two ways oi getting rid coniment with severity on this construction, of the petition, either by withdrawing it, or when the Speaker informed him it was by discharging the order.. As those who not regular to enter fully into observations presented the petition had neglected to of this nature, but that he shouid simply withdraw it, and as the time fixed for take give notice of the measure he intended to ing it into consideration was so acar, he
thought it his duty to submit the notion of George, Hanover-square, that noblemen which he had given notice; and particu- and gentlemen should be included among larly, as sir Francis Burdett and his friends those who conducted the parish concerns. would not be precluded from being heard Mr. Calcraft and Mr. P. Moore protouching the charge contained in the peti- nounced the bill a mere job, which was tion before the committee to whom the abandoned by the members of the county, petition and the nrerits of the electiol had | by whom it was brought in, as it was heen référred. It would be contrary to the against the general wish of the parishioners. spirit of the act, that the same matter They also objected to the bill on the should be tried before two different com- grounds that the directors appointed their mittees.
successors, and even the auditors of their Mr. Crécéey suggested, that it would be own accounts; and it was a mere job, that the more proper way to have the consi- ought not to be countenanced by the house deration of the petitioir adjourned. of cotthons. Very great malversation
Mr. Thornton observed, that when the had occurred, which was to come the eupetition was presented, Mr. Mainwaring suing terna before the King's Bench; and was a member of the house, and being so therefore the house, they had no doubt, no longer, the house was of course capa- would not entertain the present bill. The ble of discharging an order which now was house then divided for the second reading, useless.
Ages 42-Noes 30. The bill was then Mr. Creerey considered the point in read a second time, and was ordered to be question to be a new one, and said he committed. should lake it as a favour if the hon. gent. [STIPENDIARY CURATES' Bill.] The would defer his motion till to-morrow. Attorney-General, pursuant to notice, rose
The Speaker said the proceedings in the for the purpose of moving for leave to affair amounted to this: the petition was bring in a bill for encouraging the resipresented against a member on the ground dence of Stipendiary Curates on their of disqualification. That member had been cures. The bill was the same as one dispossessed of his seat, in consequence of which had already received the sanction of another petition, and therefore the petition the house, though from its having had, did not apply. The only question there when it passed before, a clause in it for fore was, whether the bouse had the making provisions for such curates as power of disembarrassing itself from it? should be deprived of their curacies by the
Mr. Thorntoni said the petition was per- effect of the rectors' residence bill, it had fectly useless, as the house could not pro- been considered in the other house as a ceed upon it.
money bill, and on that ground rejecteds Mr. P. Moore said the petition looked His learned friend (sir William Scott) who to an eventual circumstance, and might had introduced that bill, hau since brought therefore be applicable at another time, forward another without the exceptionable and he was commissioned by the parties clauses, but had been prevented, by his who signed it to say, that deeming Mr. professional duties, from attending to its Mainwaring disqualified, they wished their progress. The same cause still prevented petition to go collaterally with another, him from bringing forward the measure, which was still depending.
and in consequence the duty had devolved Mr. Thornton replied, that should that on him. His object was vot to alter the be the case, sir Francis Burdett's friends laws as they stand at present with respect would still have a right to be heard before to livings under 4001. per annumthe a commiitee. --The order of the day čas bishop's having power to enforce a resin then discharged.
dence; but when the living exceeded that (Pancras Poor BILL.]. Sir 7. Met- surn, he thought there could be no object calf moved the second reading of the tion to a clause for obliging the victor. to Pancras Poór bill, wbich, he observed, was provide a resident clergyman, with a salarý for the purpose of remedying the defects of vool. a year. He therefore moved for in the act passed last session. If aný ob- leave to bring in a bill to encourage theiresin jections were made to any parts of the bill, dence of stipendiary curates or their dures. these, he observed, could be rectified when Sir John Nouport expressed his hopes it was referred to a committee. Hisob- that Ireland would not be excludeck from ject was to place the parish of St. Putcras the benefit of the act proposed, ostethere on the same footing as the parish of St. was no other part of the empire where the
regular residence of the parochial clergy | customs of the house to circulate such lists; was more wanted. Those who were apt so that that he believed it would be deemto complain of the increase of oue religion, ed a breach of order in him to say that and the decrease of another, should con- the treasury were guilty of so doing; and sider the effect produced in that part of therefore he should endeavour to abstain the United Kingdom, by the suspension of from so expressivg himself; though it was those parochial duties.
a fact of which he entertained not the The Chancellor of the Exchequer said he smallest doubt. He would appeal to the understood that provisions to the effect right hon. gentlemeu themselves whether alloded to would be made in the bill pro- or not they could venture to deny the fact posed to be brought in by an hon. and to him. It was a conduct which, no doubt, learned gent. (Dr. Duigenan).
appeared highly discreditable to them. Let " Mr. P. Moore hoped it was meant to the house recollect in what situation the make the duty of residence mandatory on right hon, gent. opposite (the chancellor of the clergy.
the exchequer) then stood. He (Mr. Pitt) Mr. Creevey apprehended that the in- had boldly come forward and taken upon tended provision to curates was rather too bimself a very great responsibility as to the limited.
country. Intimately connected with lord The Attorney-General agreed with sir J. Melville, he had appealed to the house and Newport, that if there was any soundness the country as to the purity of bis conduct. of principle in the bill, it applied with The right hon. gent. had, by his own acequal strength to Ireland as it did to Eng-count, his hands pure and his character land; but he possessed too little local in- unimpeached; and this assertion he (Mr. formation respecting that country, to un- W.) was not disposed at that moment to dertake such a measure of himself; and call in question. He could not but obhe had heard it argued, on a former occa- serve, however, that a considerable deal of sion, that it would be too hard to compel suspicion was created by the manner in curates to reside in parishes where no re- which that right hon. gent. had prepared sidence was appropriated to them.
himself to go to trial. The persons who Dr. Duigenan said, that the bill he had were to judge of his conduct were such as the honour to move for would embrace the were appointed by himself. This surely objects alluded to by the hon. bart.-Leave was a circumstance not very creditable to . was given to bring in the bill.
that right hon. gent., and, in short, it ap[BALLOT FOR A SELECT COMMITTEE ON peared perfectly ludicrous to see a man THE ELEVENTH Naval Report.), The stand up and say, “ here I am, ready to Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order meet any accusation the house may think of the day for reading the report of the com- proper to bring forward against me, or call mittee appointed to examine the lists of me in question from the beginning to the end [wenty-one persons given in for the pur- of my political career. Who are to be my pose of constituting a select committee on judges ? Let them be declared in the face the tenth naval report. The names were of day; let them be named by ballot.” This accordingly read, with the number of the conduct really appeared like a sham fight, votes for each.
in which that right hon. gent. had marched Mr. Whitbread then rose and said, that his troops out beforehand, and had seemthe reading of those names which the house ed confident of being victorious. Let the had just now heard, completely justified house recollect the situation in which the him in the very serious motion which he business stood. Lord Melville was a prinshould have the honour of submitting to cipal object of the tenth report. He has them, according to the notice he had given been withdrawn from it, and the right hon. the other day, provided that these names gent. has said, that there was nothing in turned out the same as those he himself any one page of that report which in the had formerly read to them. It did so hap- least impeached his own character. He pen that they identically corresponded with begged leave to differ from that right hon. each other. This shewed that the reports gent, and to state, before the appointment which had gained ground without doors, of that committee, that he stood under as to a list of names having been industri- very suspicious circumstances, particularly ously circulated, for the purpose of com- with regard to the delicate and confidential posing that important committee, were well transactions of government, and the quietus founded. The house had already decided, that was granted by him to lord Melville, that it was no breach of the orders or on the case of Mr. Jellicoe disclosed in
An acknowledgement had hon.gent. himself, whether he really wished, been made by that right hon.gent, that he or thought it was for his advantage or that was actually in the knowledge of such of the country, to have such a committee transactions. It was natural to suppose, appointed? It was a comunittee of that that the knowledge which he niust have had right hon. gent.'s recommendation, if of most of the transactions under the cog-out nomination, (a cry of no! no!) He nizance of lord Melville, would have im- should wish to know if those gentlemen plicated him in some degree, and required who were crying on this occasion, no, no, that he should be regularly and openly were willing to go to proof with him upon freed of any suspicion. Now, that lord, the subject. Perhaps he might think of Melville has been withdrawn, up starts calling some of them as witnesses to prove the right hon. gent. and says,
I that the right hon. gent. had circulated the person who is the object of the en- these lists among his friends. He should quiry." It was particularly necessary to put it again to the right hon. gent. standenquire, whether any representations were ing, as he had done, in the place of lord or were not made to the chancellor of Melville, and appearing magnanimous and the exchequer. with regard to the with gallant on the subject, whether it was a drawing of the money from the bank. Such proper situation for the first minister of were the circumstances under which he the country to stand in ? and whether he (Mr. Pitt) had come dowu must magnani- himself should appoint the coinmittee inmously to move for a select committee for tended to investigate his own conduct ? an enquiry. To whom were the house to He had beard of persons playing at cards confide the investigation of this important naming their own trumps, but the right hon. question ? The right hon. gent. had named, gent. carried this principle somewhat furamongst others, three persons who had ther, because he was taking upon himself made oath at the table of the house, that the privilege of naming the whole of his own they thought it would be very much to the cards. He ineant no personal disrespect to detriment of public business if they were the individuals, but he had great objections obliged to attend on election committees to their political connections with the right The first person he should mention was hon. gent., which he thought, rendered lord Castlereagh, who had positively sworn, them unfit persons. He thought on such that he conceived that it would impede his a charge, the right hon. gent. should not official business if he attended on a com- have thought of making his own political mittee. The master of the rolls had sworn, friends his judges. That might not be the that he could not attend on a similar com- safest way; and the safest way seemed to mittee, without creating inconvenience to be refused by the right hon. gent. He, for the suitors in the court of chancery. Sir himself, in such a situation, would not. William Scott swore, that it would be at have desired to be tried by his coadjutors, tended with difficulty for him to attend, in a case wherein his oldest and steadiest on account of his avocations in the court political ally had, as it had been expressed of admiralty. Now, there were these three in this very enquiry, become a disgraced persons who were thus disqualified from and punished political friend and associate. attending on this select committee, which Especially he objected to the noble lord disqualification was proved by their own (Castlereagh), whose conduct, for many depositions on oath, on account of their years, rendered him an unfit person. There having occasion to attend to ottier public was also another noble lord, from the same business. The oaths which he had men- country, who held an office under the pretioned were not taken on a peculiar case, sent adıninistration (lord Dunlo). There such as the Middlesex committee, requir- was a right hon. gent. too in a place of ing their immediate and constant attend- | high rank Mr Foster), and the master of ance, but it had been their regular prac- the rolls, and sir W. Scott, who could not tice hitherto. He apprehended that every attend without public detriment. He had member appointed upon such an important rather, whatever respect be might have for committee as the present, should be per- them, ses two country gentlemen in their fectly efficient, and able in every point of places, though their talents and knowledge view to devote his time and attention to of business might be inferior. The noble such an important enquiry. Much suspi- lord (Castlereagh) was not merely a placecion was attached to the formation of this man, but a perpetual placeman. Nothing committee. He would appeal to the right could move him. He was not to be shaken