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Mr. Robert Thornton stated, that he did / Mr. Richard Martin said, that if he could not think the circulation of lists an offence have brought himself to be on the same of that grave character that some gentlemen opinion with the hon. and learned gent: seemed to conceive. He thought it per- (the Attorney General) he would have put fectly justifiable, for i men, whose political an end to the debate long ago. Would it inclinations generally coincided, did not not, he asked, be more honourable for the consult and concur with each other upon noble viscount to be acquitted by his accu, such occasions as the one which had just sers than by his friends, as much as it would given rise to the discussion before the house, be more to the honour of an individual to it would be in the power of any ten mem- be acquitted by a jury, the foreman of bers to carry the appointment of the persons which was known to be his personal enemy? who should be nominated to try the most The time of the house, he thought, had important question. He believed lists might been very unnecessarily taken up in dishave been circulated from the treasury; but cussing whether the name of the noble lord to counterbalance this, had not opposition should be continued on the list, or no. He their lists also? If no lists should be sent out, was not of the opinion of those who laid it government, or opposition, or any other lot down as a principle not to be deviated from, of men, might decide upon any question that a public functionary wis by no means where ballot should be employed; and the to be received into a committee appointed noble lord who was now objected to might for such a purpose as that proposed. By no , have his ten friends, and be borne off by means. He would examine what the chathat number of persons politically attached racter of that functionary was. If he found to him, or ruined by his adversaries. He such a person to have been uniformly venal would acknowledge he had received one of out of office, and corrupt when in it, he those lists, from whom he knew not; and could not consider such a man as a fit subhe exercised his discretion upon it to the ject for a committee. He would say a few same extent that he presumed every mem- words in answer to one argument from that ber who received one did; he made such noble lord. He was one of those who had alterations in it, and those with respect to been accused of raising a cry against the môre names than one, as he conceived in- Union; true, he had opposed it. Since that dispensible towards obtaining an impartial, great legislative measure took place, and active, and enlightened committee. He since he came into this country, he saw could perceive that on the ballot but few of many reasons to approve of it. He would, the opposition members put in their lists, with the indulgence of the house, explain and he thoug!it he could perceive the mo- what they weretives which influenced them to decline the The Speaker begged leave to remind the exercise of that privilege; and that was, be hon. member that the observations upon cause they had determined at the time to which he was about to enter could have no bring forward this motion. He was one of possible bearing upon the subject before the those who had voted with the hon. gent. house for discussion. (Mr. Whitbread) in censuring lord Mel. Mr. Martin gave way, and after a short ville, and upon that occasion he had acted conversation, during which strangers were with a number of friends, among whom excluded, the house proceeded to a division many shades and differences of opinion ex- on Mr. Whitbread's motion for expunging isted, respecting the degree of culpability the name of Lord Castlereagh, and inserting imputable to that noble lord. Was the that of Mr. Baker in its place.--Ayes 36tenor of that vote to be arraigned, because Noes 219.Majority against Mr. Whitthey had met and consulted with each other? bread's motion 133. He did not suppose the hon. gent. would While strangers were excluded, say yes. He felt it to be his duty to concur Mr. Windham, having stated to the house, in the motion of that hon. gent. on the 8th; that he had been a member of the admiand although he had since differed with him nistration in which the abuses described in on one or more occasions, he did not think the Tenth Report are alledged to have taken it improbable, but that both he, and those place; and having sụbmitted other consiwho acted with him, might have opportuni- derations to the house, why his name should ties of voting again in support of a motion be struck out of the said list, concluded brought forward by that hon. gent. The with a motion to that effect; upon which present motion, however, was one which motion another division took place :-Ayes neither lie nor any of his friends could sup- 80. Noes 207. Majority 127.- -Adport.



corporate bodies, for a statement or speciWednesday, May 1.

fication of their properties, from a pro[MINUTES.)-The bills upon the table ceeding brought forward, as the present, were forwarded in their respective stages. by any individual peer. He believed A short conversation took place between such'a proceeding was without precedent; the earl of Suffolk and the bishop of Ox- and to set one in the present case, may be ford relative to the situation of the poorer of a dangerous tendency; or, if a precedent orders of the clergy, particularly the curates, existed, it could not be conformable to that in consequence of the noble earl having respect to the rights of property, which he lately stated that he had received a variety trusted all their lordships were inclined to of information upon the subject, some pay. of which was of great importance, and The Lord Chancellor coincided in the res which he should take a future opportunity marks of the noble baron : better would it to call their lordships attention to, as he be to suffer the bill in question, beneficial deemed it well worthy the interference of as it was likely to prove, to be lost, than set the legislature; this, he seemed to say, was such a precedent as that contained in the his intention in the event of the bill now be- noble duke's motion. Did the universities fore the other house not passing.–The bi- themselves come forward and desire relief shop of Oxford observed, that to enable from specific hardships, the case would be their lordships duly to understand the sub-considerably altered. ject, information on both sides the question The Bishop of Oxford shortly stated, that should be laid before the house, otherwise a he was in possession of important informadecision

upon it must be a very latne one.- tion on the subject of the motion, which The earl of Suffolk replied, that his prin- he should freely communicate to their cipal view in calling the attention of their lordships. lordships thus early to it, particularly that The Duke of Norfolk questioned the jus, of the rev. prelates, was, that the informa- tice of the noble baron's remarks. He was tion before the house might not be ex parte. Of opinion that all corporations were more -Some detailed observations were then in- or less in the nature of trustees, and may terchanged between the abové peers, re- fairly be called upon. However, he had specting the situations of curates, upon some no objection to withdraw his motion. particular livings, who, the noble earl seem- Lord Harvkesbury, in a great degree, exed to think, were not justly treated. The pressed his concurrence in what had fallen conversation was terminated in consequence from the noble lords who disapproved of the of an observation from the Lord Chan-motion; but in some measure the merits of cellor, who said, that not a single word had such a question would depend on circumfallen from their lordships, but what was stances, so that it was impossible, with recoatrary to the orders of the house. ference to the powers of parliament, to lay

(UNIVERSITIES Advowsow Bill.)-down a fixed principle for such cases. The The order of the day being read for going motion was then withdrawn by the noble into a committee upon the above bill, duke, and the house, pursuant to the order

The Duke of Norfolk said, that as he was of the day, having resolved itself into a comin hopes the bill in question would be con- mittee upon the bill, siderably modified in the committee, he The Bishop of Oxford addressed the comshould not oppose that part of its progress; mittee in a speech of some length upon the but were it not so, he should certainly op- subject, in which he recapitulated his former pose the measure in a future stage. After arguments in favour of the principle of the some further observations, his grace moved, bill, and added a variety of detailed consithat an Account of the number and value derations, drawn from documents and acof the different livings in the presentation counts, to which and disposal of the colleges in the univer- the meası!“. incu so that it was sities, &c. be laid before the house.

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Ropposed the bill, Lord Grenville expressed his doubts of to må yet that indiefit would be obtained the propriety of this proceeding; besides, by continuing the restriction. The repeal, he believed there was no regular office, or properly speaking, would not be a boon, but place, at least none under government, an act of justice, on the part of parliament, whence the information required could he and would be gratefully received by the drawn; and he highly disapproved of any universities. He hoped, therefore, it would attempt to call upon private individuals, or not be reluctantly granted to them, and

4lly and ed. in support of




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that the bill would be suffered to pass in its | approved of the suggestion, that the funds original shape.

of the colleges should be applied to the enLord Sidmouth expressed his objections largement of small livings, rather than to the against the bill in its present shape. If it purchase of others. The bishop of Oxford appeared to be the sense of their lordships, argued against the introduction of a clause that a bill to the general effect of the pre- to that effect. The lord chancellor thought sent ought to pass, he thought some modi- that the enacting clause should pass in the fications might beneficially be introduced; way he had suggested ; and that the provibut these not being now perfectly prepared, sions adverted to should be considered on it was his intention to propose them in a a future day. The bishop of Oxford did future stage of the bill. He thought that not object to this. The bishop of St. Asaph before the universities were suffered to pur- said he would not trouble the house with chase any new livings, their friends should his opinions in the present state of the busibe employed in augmenting the small livings ness; but thought the observation of a noble now in their possession, and afterwards that lord (Harrowby) well worthy of aitention.suitable parsonage houses should be erected The question was then put, and the enacton the same.

ing clause agreed to.- Adjourned. The Lord Chancellor supported the bill. His general grounds were those he had advanced on former occasions. He dwelt

Wednesday, May 1. with great force and effect on the consider- The speaker attended at half past three, ation of its being infinitely preferable to and at four o'clock there being only 39 permit the universities of the kingdom to members present, including the speaker, acquire ecclesiastical patronage (a patronage the house of course adjourned to to-morrow, which they had always exercised in the most honourable and beneficial manner), ere it should fall into the hands of such per

Thursday, May 2. sons, Schismatics, Methodists, and other [MINUTES.]-Counsel further sectarians, as it was likely, to a dangerous heard relative to the Scots

' Appeal, Cathand destructive extent, through the present cart, bart. v. the earl of Cassilis. Several scandalous more of trallic for church pre private and return bills were brought up ferments. Though he widely differed from from the commons, and were severally read his noble friend (lord Sidmouth) in some a first time.--The bills upon the table were important considerations respecting the sub-forwarded in their respective stages.-Adject of the bill in question; yet there were journed. some of his suggestions he thought highly deserving of attention; such as the augmen

HOUSE OF tation of small livings, &c. and which, he

Thursduy, May 2. trusted, there would be a future opportunity [MINUTES.)-Mr. Grattan was sworn of considering. With that view, he thought and took his seat for the borough of Malton, it would be desirable to vote the repealing -A new writ was ordered for the election clause generally; it would be proper on a cf a nember for the borough of Helstone, future day to recommit the Bill, in order to in the room of John Penn, esq. who had consider of farther provisions of the nature accepted the chiltern hundreds. --The Irish he had allıded to.

Mail Coach Road bill, the Irish Loan bill, Lord Harkesbury supported what had and the Irish Dollar bill, were read a second fallen from his noble and learned friend. time, and ordered to be committed.-Mr.

Lord Grenville spoke in support of the Baker obtained leave to bring in a bill to bill in its present shape. It was a boon amend the act of 9 Geo. I. in regulating the well deserved by the gexersities, and duty of parish officers, so far as relates to. should be dealt to them f differe liberally, contracts for lodging, maintaining, and emand not with a sparing ha, he did notould ploving the poor.-Mr. Leyçester moved, imply a suspicion of probáva ajuse on their that a message be sent to the house of lords, part.

to request that lord Melville have leave to Lord Sidmouth spoke in explanation, as come and be examined before the commita to some points in the noble baron's speech, tee to which had been referred the further intended as a refutation of certain positions examination of the matter contained in the which he had advanced. The bishop of tenth report of the commissioners of naval London and the earl of Suffolk shortly de- enquiry. The message was ordered, and livered their sentiments. Lord Harrowby Mr. Leycester to be the bearer of it.


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[Lord Melville's Grant.)-Lord H. count was ordered, with some others of the Petty rose pursuant to his notice, to move for same nature. The noble lord then moved certain accounts of the public income in for an account of another grant to lord MelScotland, and of certain grants out of that in- ville, of the arrears of the stewardship of

The reason of his making these mo- Fife. This was necessary, as there was a tions was, that as there was an acknowledg- report that the grant had been made in a ei necessity of inquiring as much as possible surreptitious manner, and not on grounds into every abuse in every department of the satisfactory to the lords of the treasury when government, those papers seemed to him it came afterwards to be considered. well worthy of the attention of the house, as Mr. Bond-It is true my name appears connected with that object. He stated, that upon the warrant; and I subscribed it with, it had been the practice in Scotland, origi- out any hesitation, upon the authority of nating at the union, to draw money, by an- what appears at the beginning of that docuticipation, out of the hands of the receiver- ment, that the business was done with the general of Scotland, by the authority of concurrence of the barons of the exchequer warrants from the barons of the exchequer in Scotland. I certainly take no blame to in that country, signed by some of the lords myself in the affair, since it was done with of the treasury here. This mode of draw their ackuowledged advice and approbation. ing the money, which had been originally But I think it due to this house, and to the designed as a security against abuse, seemed, public, on the present occasion, to advance however, to have been lately made the one step farther. It was not known to me, means of it. From 1783 to 1790, on an nor, I believe, to



my colleagues who average, 186,0001. a year had been drawn signed the instrument, that it had reference in this way ; from 1790 to 1797, it had in- to arrears to an amount of any consideration. creased to 223,000l. according to the report Some small sum, we thought, might be comof the committee of finance. That com- prised under that head, but that it should mittee had suggested the propriety of li- cover an item exceeding 30001. I believe miting this issue, as there was no certainty none of us entertained the most remote that the revenue from which it was taken idea.--This account was also ordered. could be counted upon for any certain pro- (PROCEEDINGS AGAINST THE PRINTER duct while it was liable to be so drawn upon OF "THE ORAC12,” FOR A LIBEL ON without any regular account. The practice, the House. ]--Sir Henry Mildmay prehowever, had been suffered to continue, sented a petition from Peter Stuart, propriand the mischief of it may be conceived etor of the paper called The Oracle, then in from one instance; the grant of 15001. a custody of the serjeant at arms, by order of year to lord Melville annexed to his office the house, for a breach of privilege in a paof lord privy seal for Scotland. This grant ragraph in that paper, and moved, that the he considered a violation of the appropria- said petition be read. The petition was tion act, of the act respecting the revenue of accordingly read by the clerk, and is as folScotland also, and of Mr. Burke's act re- lows :-" To the honourable the house of stricting the crown from granting pensions commons in parliament assembled, the petiabove 12001. without the consent of parlia- tion of Peter Stuart, printer and publisher ment, for this grant was 15001. If this of a morning newspaper intitled grant had been directly made as an addition Daily Advertiser, Oracle, and True Briton,' to the salary of the first lord of the admi- most humbly sheweth, that for the publicaralty it would not have been for life. If it tion of that part of his paper of Thursday was intended as a grant for life, the proper last, deemed highly offensive to this honourmode would have been, an application to able house, he feels the deepest regret; and parliament, stating lord Melville's merits as that althoughcertain expressions in that the grounds on which the claim was made. paragraph be indiscreet and unguarded, and The noble lord concluded with moving, such as have incurred the displeasure of so " that there be laid before the house an ac. important a branch of the British consticount of all monies paid under warrants of tution, yet that your petitioner humbly the barons of exchequer in Scotland, direct- hopes, on this acknowledginent of his sined to the receivers of the customs and ex- cere sorrow, that this honourable house, in cise in that country, stating the persons to the plenitude of its condescension and libewhom such grants were made, and the pur-ralitv, will be pleased to pardon him for a poses for which, from 1797 down to the transgression solely attributable to the hasty latest period they were made.” This ac- composition of a newspaper, and not to any



deliberate design of offending this honour house, whether ever any thing in the form of able house. That your petitioner is embol- apology came up to this, which not only dened to solicit your indulgence and forgive justified what the house had thought repreness on his well founded assurance, that du- hensible, but even made accusations upon ring the several years in which he has con- the house. He also pointed out the extraducted a newspaper, it has uniformly been ordinary claim of merit in opposing certain his principle and pride zealously to support societies out of doors, which, it was modestthe character and dignity of the house of ly said, would, if not opposed by this person, commons; and that it has frequently fallen and those to whom he referred, have preto his lot to have vindicated both from the vented the house from ever sitting. He charges of societies expressly instituted to left it to the house what opinion it should bring them into public disrepute and con- form of this extraordinary petition. He tempt.-In any observations which your should not offer any new motion ; but he petitioner may have published on the con- put it to the hon. baronet whether the oriduct of lord Melville, he could not but bear ginal one ought to be persevered in. The in mind, that the views of those societies, petition was, by general desire, read a seabetting domestic treason, and assisted by cond time. the co-operation of the revolutionary power Sir Henry Mildmay said, he really saw of France, would, he verily believes, have nothing improper in the petition, nor could effected the destruction of the British con- he understand why the hon. gent. should stitution, had not the wise and efficient mea- cry out so much against it. If it was the sures brought forward by that administra- allusion to lord Melville, and the credit tion, in which lord Melville held so conspi- given to him, and those who acted with him, cuous a situation, been adopted; and this for those measures which enabled the house honourable house would not, in that case, to preserve its place, he had no hesitation perhaps, have been now in existence, either for himself to avow the same sentiments, to censure lord Melville, or to pardon your He could not help believing that the right petitioner.—That if any thing could increase hon. gent. misunderstood the language of your petitioner's regret, it would be its being the petition. He did not see the smallest supposed that the objectionable paragraph impropriety in the petition, and he therewas directed also against the right hon. the fore continued his motion. speaker of the house of commons; that Mr. For, although he professed himself your petitioner has no hesitation to declare, to be no way averse to the object of the that no idea was ever more remote from his petition, thought that the petition itself was mind; and that your petitioner would be a very improper one to be presented to the the very last person to insinuate any thing house. It was unnecessary and improper disrespectful of a character whom he, in to introduce in a petition of this nature, the conjunction with the whole nation, highly opinions of the petitioner respecting the esteems as a private gentleman, and most conduct of lord Melville in other times, and profoundly venerates as the head and public upon former occasions. He was at a loss to organ of this hon. house. That your peti- know for what other meaning this topic had tioner most humbly hopes this hon. house been introduced, but for the object of atwill consent to his release; and your peti- tacking those who brought him before that tioner will ever pray, &c. P. STUART.”- house. The other topic which he had The petition being read, the hon. baronet chosen for his defence, namely, the general moved, that the said Peter Stuart be brought principles on which he had long conducted to the bar and discharged.

a newspaper, appeared to him a most unMr. Windham called the attention of the seemly ground for the petitioner to rest his house to the insolence of this petition, and defence upon. In the first place, how was asked whether any thing like it had ever the house to know the facts How was it to been known? The condescension of the be expected that they should know what petitioner in bearing testimony to the pri- newspapers he conducted, or what was his vate character of the speaker, and the office manner of conducting them ? He could not he held; was indeed extraordinary. How- conceive that the house could admit of such ever far the house could go in tolerating the a ground of defence, unless ministers wislied insolence offered to it, and to every thing now to inculcate the doctrine, that it will else sacred in the state, he was decidedly of always be admitted as an excuse for those opinion that the insolence of this petition who may be brought before them for libelwas beyond all toleration. He left it to the ling that house, that the person who has

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