Imágenes de páginas
PDF
EPUB

Mr. Jeffery declared that his conduct did not spring from any party connection, but, from the impulse of the moment. He had no communication on the subject of his motions with the minister, or any other person; and, when the right hon. gent. (Mr. Tierney) asked him this day in private whether they were to be carried, he candidly answered him that he did not know.

duct of the noble earl; but, when that en- | the consideration of his official conduct. The quiry was challenged by his friends, he accounts should comprise the administration should not be doing his duty either to him- of lord Chatham, when the navy was placed self or to the country, were he to take any in the condition which laid the foundation measures to suppress it. of its future glory; and even the administration of lord Sandwich, when it had received a great addition. He thought the motion could not be considered as hostile to earl St. Vincent, but rather as directed to obtain information highly material to the public interest. He condemned the contemptuous language with which a right hon, gent. (Mr.Tierney) had spoken of individuals connected with no party. He was jealous Mr. Grey reprobated, in the most forcible on this point, as he was aware he himself language, the mode in which this subject would be frequently classed with this deswas brought forward. An hon. member cription of members. If it appeared that moved for the production of a number of the ships were not so numerous in lord St. papers, which he said possibly might Vincent's administration as those before it, not authorise enquiry, and yet in the in- and that the short and feverish peace we had troduction to his motion he made use of enjoyed was not employed to prepare for a the strongest language which could be ap- war that must have been easily foreseen, it plied to any case, even after a charge of was fit the blame should be cast where it improper conduct was established upon proof ought to be; he alluded also to the misbefore the house. All that he could under- chief of interfering with the authority of stand by the expression of his right hon. captains of ships, as the depreciation of the friend (Mr. Tierney), by the word “ pro- respect paid to them might lead to the alarmtection was, that it meant to signify fair- ing state of things in the navy which every ness, though in fact, he was sorry the word one remembered with so much pain. He had been used at all. The fairness he then pronounced the highest panegyric on claimed on the part of the earl St. Vincent the virtues, talents, and other excellent was, that whatever objections there might qualifications of lord Barham, the present be in point of convenience, all the papers first lord of the admirality. It was, he unshould be produced, which might be ne-derstood, the fashion of some gentlemen, to cessary for the enquiry. The hon. gent. (Mr. Jeffery) seemed surprised, that any gentleman should oppose the papers, without knowing what they were; but he forgot, that when the papers should be produced, it would be too late to oppose them. He acted, in this respect, like the judge, who was reported to have told a barrister from the bench-" I will not allow you to open your mouth, until you tell me what you have to say." As to the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt), he must do him the justice to say, that he acted consistently, and he had uniformly expressed himself hostile to the naval administration of the earl St. Vincent.

Mr. Tierney explained. He said, what he meant by protection was, that ministers should not, at this late period of the session, suffer such motions to be brought forward, and had no reference in his observation to the particular friends of the noble earl.

Mr. Wilberforce agreed with the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer, that the gratitude due to earl St. Vincent's professional character, should not be a bar to

represent his great qualities as chilled by the influence of years; but from the opportunities he had of judging, he must declare him to be, in his opinion, the man of all others, the best qualified for his situation.

Mr. Pytches here called the hon. gent, to order: thinking such high panegyrics on the new first lord of the admiralty, were by no means relevant to the present motion.

Mr. Wilberforce thought himself perfectly in order, when it was considered that lord Barham was comptroller of the navy under two of the administrations to which these motions referred.

Mr. Curwen thought, that after earl St. Vincent had been acquitted of all charges in the last session, when the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) moved for papers to criminate him, it would, at least, have been decent to abstain from any harsh expre ion towards him, until the papers now moved for should be properly examined. The language used by the hon mover appeared to him much too strong to be lightly applied to so good and exalted a character; and he thought the

but what he could hope to derive from the justice of his country. The gentlemen opposite him would never think on such a subject to content themselves only with such

panegyric on Lord Barham the more un-noble earl, who wanted no other protection necessary in this debate, as not a single reflexion had been cast upon him. He made no doubt, but when the enquiry should be made, the noble earl would appear in as exalted a sphere of character as he had al-papers as might be sufficient for a vote of ways done before; and, until the trial, he conceived that great character entitled to every degree of approbation.

Mr. Bastard was of opinion, that the enquiry, which ought rather now to extend itself to the dominion of the sea, ought not to be confined to the limits of earl St. Vincent's administration. Instead of party motions of this kind, it would more become the house to enquire into the disorders in the West Indies, and the circumstance of the dominion of the sea being now in the hands of the French, who dared not shew their faces on the ocean during the administration of the gallant earl St. Vincent. During that vigourous and active administration, the French could presume to shew themselves only to be defeated, and how shameful was now the reverse, when the British squadrons were obliged to fly before them. The hon. gentleman concluded with observing that the great object of our enquiry should at present be, by what means we might be able again to put ourselves into the same situation in which earl St. Vincent had left us?

Mr. R. Ward said, he must absolutely and distinctly deny that the enemy were now in possession of the dominion of the sea, or were able to cope with our fleets in any part of the world.

Admiral Markham said, if the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) already objected to two of the motions while he was willing to grant the remainder, it must also follow, that he should have to object to many others which he should think it right to submit respecting the supply of foreign timber, which would be so necessary to the earl St. Vincent's justification, though he should be sorry, on any other account, to propose the disclosure of any thing which might be supposed embarrassing to government. When the same right hon. gent. last year moved for an account of the foreign timber imported, he objected to it as a disclosure which he thought at that time improper, but being now out of office, he was not capable of judging whether a similar communication would not be equally injurious at the present time. All he should think of asking for would be such papers as were barely necessary for the vindication of the VOL. IV.

one night; for, if the enquiry respecting lord Melville required to be referred to a committee, though comparatively it lay in a nut-shell, how much more necessary would it be on a subject which embraced the conduct of a whole administration? He must once more observe, that all he should require was, that the case should be fairly, fully, equally, and impartially tried. This he was peculiarly anxious for, because, as he loved his country much more dearly than he did earl St. Vincent, he considered a just and full enquiry to be the best means of se curing it. If a committee should be appointed on it, he wished it to consist not of party men, as on the late occasion, but of proper people (order! order!)-He did not mean to say that any set of gentlemen would be actually partial.

[ocr errors]

The Chancellor of the Exchequer here in-. terrupted the hon. admiral, as being disorderly in anticipating what sort of committee the papers might be referred to, before they were produced.

The Speaker said, that in fairness he must acquit the hon. admiral of being more out of order, in that instance, than others who preceded him; but, he must at the same time inform the hon. admiral, that it was highly disrespectful to speak of committees appointed by the house, as if they were the nomination of any individual.

Admiral Markham, after apologising, went on to proceed in nearly the same way, when he was again called to order by Mr. Dent.

The hon. admiral said, he did not conceive himself irregular in adverting to what he meant to be the objects of his own motions; when, the Speaker said, he must now imperatively interfere, and acquaint the hon. member, that he was not at liberty to pass by the subject of discussion, or refer to his own motions, till the present was disposed of. After some further conversation, the motion was agreed to.

Mr. Jeffery then moved a long string of motions, for "the number of line-of-battle ships and frigates in commission, in 1793, distinguishing their rates, &c. ditto, in 1794, and from thence to the 18th of February, 1801-2-3-4, and 5, distinguishing their rates, and whether in the king's or merchants' docks; also the ships of the saine

3 B

description out of commission; the numbers building during these periods; when launched, or likely to be launched; ships laid down, and meant to be built; the timber in store; the quality of the articles, &c.; all of which were agreed to.

Mr. Dent then, in pursuance of a former notice, in order to probe things to the bottom, and draw a comparison between the administration of earl Spencer and the earl St. Vincent, moved, "that there be laid before the house, a list of all persons raised to the rank of lieutenants in the navy, from lieutenants to captains and commanders, and from captains and commanders to post captains, from the 1st of Jan. 1795, to the 1st of Jan. 1804." He said, that if the papers were agreed to, he should follow them up with a specific motion.

Admiral Markham thought it invidious to draw this comparison, as he, together with all the friends of earl St. Vincent, had ever spoken and thought in the highest manner of the purity and zeal of earl Spencer's administration.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed an amendment, for bringing the account to the latest period, which would include the administration of viscount Melville.

Sir J. Sinclair renewed his former objection to the multiplication of enquiries at this late period of the session.

Mr. Kinnaird said, that, to do away the invidious distinction between the administration of earls Spencer and St. Vincent, he should propose as an amendment to the motion, that it should begin at the year 1793, instead of 1795, which would include also the administration of the earl of Chatham.

Admiral Markham said, that, as the object was to shew that earl St. Vincent employed a greater number of officers than any of his predecessors, it would be right to shew the reason of the promotions which were made at the end of the late war, for the reward of naval services, and to amend the motion, by going back to a comparative estimate with the promotions made under the administration of earl Sandwich, at the close of the American war. However, as he did not wish to crowd the table of the house with too many papers, he should not persist in the amendment. The amended motion was then agreed to, commencing with the year 1793.

[CORN REGULATION BILL.] Lord A. Hamilton called the attention of the house to the numerous petitions against the corn law of the last session. He argued that the

great advance in the price of grain since the introduction of that measure into the house, was in a great degree attributable to it. He complained particularly that Irish grain, when warehoused here, might be exported as foreign, and he believed that much of this Irish grain had in this manner found its way to enemies ports. He concluded with moving, that a committee be appointed to enquire into the matter of the petitions.

Colonel Stanley represented the extent of the complaints against the bill, in the manufacturing parts of Lancashire.

The Secretary at War observed, that the petitioners acted upon misapprehension or misrepresentation, as, in fact, the bill never came into operation. As to the injurious effect upon Scotland, it was to be ascribed to the alteration in the usual average, proposed by the noble lord himself, and to obviate which, he was now suing for redress.

Mr. Coke (of Norfolk) was against the bill going into a committee, or any further discussion being had upon it. It had produced the most beneficial effects already, by encouraging the importation of wheat, which now throughout England kept down the price of the markets.

Mr. Western was against all discussion of the subject, now when corn was every where falling in price, on account of the great quantities imported, from the contemplation of what might have been the effects of the late act. Its provisions had not yet taken effect; and the ports had never been shut by it, as the prices were not low enough to produce that consequence. Even in Scotland, as well as Ireland, the surplus produce was, this year, so great, that large quantities of wheat were imported from these countries into England. Even in Lanarkshire, the petitions from which were so much rested upon, the average prices were lower than on the corn exchange in London; and, he believed, upon the whole, lower than the average prices of England. When the bill was passed the price of com was 10s. a quarter dearer than it was now throughout the country. It was a great object to throw off the dependance which Great Britain heretofore was under, for its supplies to foreign countries, which in the present state of Europe, might, without any strain of probability, be, in a short time, converted into enemies. The effect of the continuance of this act would be, that the man who employed his capital in agriculture might safely conclude in deriving an adequate profit from it, and in this manner

be put upon a fair footing with the manu- | if any gentleman would take the trouble of facturer. enquiring, he would find that it was the frost which came on in June. He thought it, however, desirable that the house should go into a committee.

Sir Robert Peele argued, that the manufacturing interest should be supported against foreign competition, by supplying the necessities of workmen at a reasonable rate. A temporary depression of the farmer's profits ought not to be made the cause of a permanent burthen on the consumer.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he approved of the general principle of the act of last year, and was convinced that it had no share in the high price of grain, which was solely to be attributed to the deficiency of the crops throughout the country. It did much good from the encouragement it gave to importation, and he contended it to be impossible, that the interest of the agriculturist and manufacturer should ever be at variance with each other. If the house was once to discourage the grower for the present interest of the consumer, it must follow that the latter must ever afterwards be a sufferer by it; and, at times, subjected to such aggravated prices as would be most severely and intolerably felt. He deprecated any farther discussion on the subject at present, but did not object to the committee, as he thought it the most effectual mode, in its report, of counteracting all erroneous opinions with regard to it.

Mr. Barham spoke in favour of the committee, and thought that, as the people had doubts, it was necessary that an investigation should take place.

Sir C. Price thought the interference of parliament in these matters had a bad effect on the market.

Sir J. Newport opposed the motion for a committee, as he thought, whenever this subject was discussed, speculations took place, which were injurious, and, no doubt, would be enlarged, if the present motion were carried. Sir W. Curtis and Alderman Coombe thought the average too high, and agreed that the house should go into a committee. Lord Archibald Hamilton concluded the debate with asserting his design to be not to alter the bill if it were advan→ tageous, but only to permit the committee to enquire into its merits; so much he considered to be due to the petitioners and to the country. The house then divided:Ayes 63; Noes 40. Majority for the committee 23.-Adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Monday, May 13.

[ROMAN CATHOLIC PETITION.] The or

Mr. Foster stated, that he had supported this bill when brought forward last session, and saw no reason why it should now be altered or repealed. No corn had been ex-der of the day having been read for resumported from Great Britain in consequence of it, nor had it prevented any from being imported; it had done no harm; and he, therefore, did not wish any investigation to take place.

ing the adjourned debate on the Roman Catholic Petition,

The Earl of Suffolk rose.-The emancipation of the Irish Roman catholics was a measure, his lordship was of opinion, which Mr. Macdowall observed on the average must sooner or later be adopted, and thereprices, which, he said, were against Scot-fore he wished their lordships at once geneland, and thought, if the committee, in this instance, was refused, a bill should be brought in specifically to regulate them.

Mr. Francis maintained that when the bill passed, the price of bread was not more than eightpence or ninepence the quartern loaf, and, in about a month after, it rose to about sixteen or seventeen pence, for no other reason but because the bill was in force. He would, therefore, give his assent to the motion.

Mr. H. Lascelles thought it better to go into the committee, and if it should be found that the bill had no effect, it might easily be altered.

Mr. W. Smith did not think the bill was the cause of the rise of bread, and was sure,

rously and nobly to grant the prayer of the petition. Objections had been made to this as a proper time for such a measure ; but no time, his lordship contended, could be more proper than the present. It was indeed a critical time, a time when they knew not how soon the enemy might land on their shores; but it was only for that reason the more necessary that the whole strength and population of the empire should be united, and no means could be more effectual for this purpose, he thought, than to conciliate the Roman catholics of Ireland by a just, a wise, and moderate policy. The concessions that had already been made them, it had been argued, had only been productive of evil, and had led to the present high de

[ocr errors]

of the present petition, and urged the advantages that might be derived from making magistrates of the country gentlemen, whose religion being the same as that of the people would give them greater weight and influence, and reconcile the people to their authority. The noble earl concluded by urging the propriety of receiving the Roman catholics to a participation of the rights of the constitution, as a measure of both justice and expediency.

The Earl of Oxford supported the petition, and disclaimed all corection with a certain person who had been alluded to on the former night (Arthur O'Connor) since he had heard that he had joined the enemy.

mands; but those concessions, on the con- | lions were at all connected with the grounds trary, he contended, had done good, and from the present, therefore, as necessary to complete the good effects of the former, the greatest advantages might be expected. His lordship then made some animadversions on the speech of the noble secretary (lord Hawkesbury) on the former night, and vindicated the conduct of the noble baron who was the author of the motion. If ever he had heard a great constitutional question argued with that cool and temperate moderation which became its importance, it was on that occasion by the noble baron. If the noble lord had said that such a measure as that prayed for in the petition would ultimately prevail, he could only mean that reason, and an enlightened policy, would ultimately triumph over those little prejudices that were the greatest obstacles to the measure; a sentiment he thought which could not easily have been misunderstood, and in which he readily and sincerely concurred. The noble earl farther contended that they owed the Roman catholics of Ireland the prayer of their petition, as a matter of justice as well as of expediency, because it had been held out to them as an inducement to their union with this country, and the expectation of which had contributed in so great a degree to the accomplishment of that object, that it was probable that, without such expectation, that event would not have taken place. A noble lord (lord Hawkesbury) had laid it down as a principle that this petition ought never to be granted. He thought this a very imprudent declaration, as well as highly degrading to the Irish character, particularly as our army and navy were so much indebted to Ireland for their supply. The noble lord had declared, that he had no confidence in their principles, and was afraid of the bad consequences that would ensue from the hostility of their religion to the civil rights of the country. But he wished noble lords to recollect, that many of our best rights had criginated under Roman catholics, and when that religion was the religion of the country; and as a proof that difference in religion was not so incompatible with the duties and relations of citizens, he could not help reminding their lordships, that even in Roman catholic countries, protestants were sometimes employed by the government and permitted to hold offices of trust. The ablest minister and the greatest soldier that France could ever boast of were both protestants, and no bad consequences were found to ensue from that circumstance. He denied that the late rebel

The Earl of Buckinghamshire, perceiving a noble and learned friend near him (lord Carleton) anxious to deliver his sentiments upon the important subject then under their lordships' consideration, was extremely unwilling to prevent the house from hearing the noble lord; but having resided for so many years in Ireland, having during a considerable portion of that time held a high official situation in that country, and having been the individual who introduced the bill of 1793, he was absolutely precluded from giving a silent vote. In offering his sentiments against the motion of the noble baron, however they might militate against the prayer of the petition, he was under no apprehension of being charged with prejudice or intolerance; to such an imputation he would answer by a reference to the bill of 1793, and it would be unnecessary for him to desire a more effectual justification than would be found in the provisions of that bill. It had given to the Roman catholics of Ireland the full enjoyment of a perfect equality of civil rights with the rest of his majesty's subjects, with an exemption from certain political obligations which are withheld from all except the protestant dissenters of that country. Under the impression of every thing that had been already conceded, he was never more surprised, than that the noble baron, whilst deprecating inflammatory language in others, should himself resort to so extraordinary a position, as that the refusing to grant what the Roman catholics had sought for in their petition could be justified only upon the principle of their being deemed traitors, and unfit even to be permitted to take the oath of allegiance, and if that were the case, severe and oppressive as the penal code had been, it ought to be re-enacted. Such an argument from the Hips of the noble baron could not fail to ex

« AnteriorContinuar »