Mr. HEADLEY. No, sir; it considers both sides. It is a fair arrangement, because, in the long run, there is nothing gained by retaining the nioney of the permittee when he cannot use what he is supposed to secure under his permit. Mr. SANDLIN. The point you make, Mr. Thurston, is that if he grazes more land than he made a contract for, he should pay the Government something. Mr. THURSTON. No; if he makes a contract for a large tract, and uses only one fourth of it, he wants a refund for the three fourths. Mr. HEADLEY. Not necessarily. Mr. SILCOX. In the case of a grazing permit he cannot make a contract for a specific tract of land. He must secure permit for a certain number of head of stock to be grazed. Now, suppose a drought comes along Mr. THURSTON (interposing). Suppose a drought does not come. Let us suppose it is an ordinary year. Mr. SILCOX. In that case, there would probably be no adjustment to be made. These adjustments are made only when the Government fails to deliver to the permittee, that which he has paid for, or, when the permittee is prevented from using the range by contingencies beyond his control. There must be a mutuality of interest. Mr. HEADLEY. Suppose the weather was such or the season was such that he could not use the grazing privilage that he paid for in the spring when he secured his permit. Under such circumstances it would be a fair adjustment to refund him what he had paid. Mr. SANDLIN. What percentage is refunded each year? Mr. HEADLEY. The estimate contemplates $60,000 against receipts amounting to some $2,500,000. NATIONAL FOREST RESERVATION COMMISSION Mr. SANDLIN. Next we have the item for the National Forest Reservation Commission, for the necessary expenses of the Commission and its members. Those are Members of Congress-Members of the House and Senate? Mr. HEADLEY. Yes, sir; and members of the Cabinet. Mr. SANDLIN. You have $2,600 for that? Mr. HEADLEY. Yes, sir. Mr. SANDLIN. A decrease of $1,000 from last year? Mr. HEADLEY. This item comes under an authorization of $25,000 annually but only so much is appropriated as is anticipated will be required. PAYMENT TO STATES AND TERRITORIES FROM THE NATIONAL FORESTS FUND Mr. SANDLIN. The next item is payment to States and territories from the national forest fund, $660,000. How is this money distributed? Mr. HEADLEY. That is distributed for the benefit of public roads and schools in the counties in which the national forests are situated, under an act appropriating 25 percent of national forest receipts for that purpose. Mr. SILCOX. I might make that a little clearer by stating that Congress passed an act which provided that 25 percent of all receipts from the national forests should be returned to the counties in lieu of taxation, with the provision that that money be used for improvements in the county. Mr. THURSTON. That is in addition to the $12,500,000 made available for forest roads 2 years ago, and $8,000,000 last year? Mr. SILCOX. Yes, sir. Twenty-five percent of the total receipts from the national forests, from timber, grazing, and so forth, are to be returned to the counties in lieu of taxation on lands reserved in Federal ownership. It is obligatory under the act of Congress to return this 25 percent to the States. Mr. HEADLEY. This is permanent legislation which has been in effect since 1908. PAYMENT TO SCHOOL FUNDS, ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO, NATIONAL FORESTS FUND Mr. SANDLIN. Payment of school funds, Arizona and New Mexico, national forests fund. That is under a special act of Congress, too, is it not? Mr. HEADLEY. Yes, sir. It provides for the payment to the States of Arizona and New Mexico, such proportions of the gross proceeds of all the National Forests within those States as the area of lands granted to each State for school purposes within these forest reserves may bear to the total area of all national forests within these States. Mr. SILCOX. All that is done there is to pool the State land grants for school purposes and the national forest holdings for the purpose of economy in administration. Mr. HEADLEY. It is a great simplification in the management of a solid body of land. ROADS AND TRAILS FOR STATES, NATIONAL FORESTS FUND Mr. SANDLIN. The item for roads and trails for States, national forests fund, is eliminated? Mr. HEADLEY. Yes, sir. Mr. SILCOX. Ordinarily this is a current item. It is eliminated this year because of the large expenditures being made from emergency funds for comparable work. COOPERATIVE WORK, FOREST SERVICE Mr. SANDLIN. The appropriation for cooperative work, Forest Service, seems to show an increase of $483,859. Mr. HEADLEY. Yes, sir; because we expect the cooperative deposits to increase during the fiscal year 1935. This is merely legislative machinery permitting the Forest Service to accept, in an orderly and safe way, deposits made for protection of private land within the national forests or for cooperative construction and maintenance of roads or other projects, and to disburse the funds through our regular channels. Mr. SANDLIN. Where does this money come from that is paid in? Mr. HEADLEY. From numerous sources. One of the important items is that third one, prevention and suppression of forest fires, which covers the deposits made by private landowners within the national forests for the extension to their land of the protection which, as a matter of fact, the Government must give to the entire block of land, anyway. It means that they pay their fair share of the cost of protecting the land that they own. The next item is for disposal of brush and other timber debris in timber sale operations. It is possible under this arrangement to have deposits made by the timber-sale purchaser, and then when the proper time of year comes for disposing of debris-for burning without danger of fire to the forest-the funds are on hand to prosecute that work in an orderly way. Mr. SILCOX. None of these are public funds. They are all paid in through cooperative agreements for deposit in the Treasury, to the credit of this appropriation. We just exercise supervision over the fund and the work to be accomplished. Mr. SANDLIN. All these funds are contributed? P.W.A. FUNDS Mr. SANDLIN. Here is a statement, beginning on page 300, of emergency funds. Mr. SILCOX. The prepared statement covering the activities under various emergency funds will be inserted here. (The statement referred to is as follows:) IMPROVEMENT OF THE NATIONAL FORESTS Under provisions of the National Industrial Recovery Act, approved June 16, 1933 (Public, 67, 73d Cong.), the Federal Emergency Administration of Public Works allotted $15,982,745 (exclusive of acquisition of land and road construction funds) to the Forest Service, as follows: Transfers: Rodent control (transferred to the Bureau of Biological Survey).. General administrative expenses. Protection and administration of the national forests: Fire prevention... Blister-rust control.. Aerial fire control... Classification of lands. Sanitation and fire prevention. Planting on the national forests. Reconnaissance.. Improvement of the national forests. Forest surveys. Soil-erosion investigations. OTHER WORK ON THE NATIONAL FORESTS $9,786 $231,714 441, 184 12, 487 1, 172 19, 752 152,798 34, 457 142, 179 118,543 67,642 Projects: 1. Construction and maintenance of permanent fire breaks. 2. Construction and maintenance of lookout houses, towers, and observatories... 3. Construction and maintenance of telephone lines for fire protection. 4. Construction and maintenance of range fences, driveways and bridges, 5. Construction and maintenance of public camp ground improvement. 7. Miscellaneous construction, including fences and water development for 20. Boundary surveys.. 21. Surveys needed for forest activities not including topographic quadrangles or GLO cadastral surveys. 22. Research: Forest management. Range investigation. Forest economics. Forest survey. Total.. Grand total. (ACT OF MAR. 31, 1933, WAR, TRANSFER TO AGRICULture) Under provision of the act of March 31, 1933 (Public, No. 5, 73d Cong.) entitled "For the Relief of Unemployment Through the Performance of Useful Public Works and for Other Purposes" and pursuant to Executive Order No. 6101, dated April 5, 1933, allotments are made to the Forest Service through the War Department for Emergency Conservation Work as follows: 1. For emergency conservation work on the national forests: 1933, $1,319,799; 1934, (estimated), $33,653,854; total to June 30, 1934, $34,973,653. The foregoing allotments are subject to revision in order to cover transfer of $1,000,000, as provided by the Budget schedules for expenditure under the regular items of the Forest Service during 1935. This allotment is used for the pay of supervisory and facilitating personnel necessary for the field work done from E.C.W. camps on national forests; also for purchase of necessary equipment and construction materials and for miscellaneous expenses incident to the field work of the camps. The field work on the national forests includes construction of physical improvements needed for protection and administration of the forests, tree planting, thinning of young strands of timber, destruction of undesirable timber species and, rodent control. 2. For Emergency Conservation Work in Alaska: 1933, $12,057; 1934 (estimated), $392,262; total to June 30, 1934, $404,319. WORK DONE under this ALLOTMENT This allotment is used for pay and allowances to dependents of enrolled members of the Civilian Conservation Corps and for salaries and wages of extra supervisory and clerical personnel needed in connection with the work. It is also used for purchase of clothing, subsistence, supplies and camp equipment required for enrolled men of the corps and for the purchase of construction materials used in the work. Classes of work done under this allotment include construction of trails, minor roads, bridges, water development and improvement and miscellaneous administrative improvements; roadside clearings and public camp-ground improvement, estimating timber resources, and other miscellaneous work. The men engaged in the work are recruited from the unemployed local residents without regard to age. 3. Emergency conservation work on State, municipal, and privately owned land: 1933, $25,375; 1934, (estimated) $30,291,614; total to June 30, 1934, $30,316,989. Estimated obligations by States are given below: |
